This is a great teaching By Amir Tsarfati, He is talking about, where is america in bible prophecy?
The two Mormons I have been talking about that I met with and with whom I am friends on Facebook, lied to me, about me, and are rather deceitful. Here is a break down of what happened.
I replied to both of them in one letter and posted this on both of their Facebook timelines.
Hello Austin Condie and Kael Bowman.
Let me start first by saying that everything I am about to write to you guys will be posted on my website as an “article.” It will also be posted on my Facebook page “Fighting for Truth,” and I will read it in its entirety on my radio show for all the world to hear. With this in mind, if you guys want to respond, you are more than welcome to do so.
What is this all about? I feel you two as Mormons are very dishonest and have lied and use deceit. I will explain why in detail and give quotes. When the two of you came to my house and we sat down and had a long talk, I told you guys that I feel your church is a bit on the uncaring, unloving side and only want people who will not think for themselves and just blindly believe everything you tell them. You guys said that is not true. I also said that after you guys leave, I will never see you again and your “higher ups” will not let you speak with me and they will not speak with me either.
Austin wrote me and sent me a friend request via Facebook and said, and I quote, “Hey Rick! We are able to use Facebook to help answer questions and help teach. We’d love to help you in any way we can.” AND “Hey, we both talked to our mission president and he did not give direction to stop talking to you. I know you have examined everything but that does not scare me. I’m more than willing to go the miles and listen to you as well as learn how to help teach you better.”
These are exact quotes as I saved all replies I receive from you guys. It’s nice of you to say to me that you’re willing to listen and help. Here is the problem. The very first reply I received from Austin was Oct 5th, and as of this reply being written now, it is Oct 26th. In the days between the 5th and the 26th, I have posted 13 articles on Austin’s timeline, Here is a break down to be more accurate. One was a link to my website/radio show; one was an article about the anchors mentioned in the Bible (Acts 27) that were tossed off the boat on which the apostle Paul was sailing. It was just pointing out as evidence that they were recovered, and now all the world can view them; zero mention of Mormonism mentioned. Another one was a video of a speaker talking about end times prophecy and the soon rapture of the Church. Again, zero mention of Mormonism.
One was not exactly an article; it was Austin asking me to watch a video by Mormon Tad R. Callister called, “Gods compelling witness of the Book of Mormon.” I pretty much broke down everything Tad said and replied to it. One Article I posted was what I shared with you guys when you came to the house. It was what I called, the “Bruce McConkie Challenge.” When you guys came over, I only shared part of it with you; this was the entire thing. Another thing I posted were some Bible verses and my thoughts on what they say and asking his thoughts on what he thinks they say.
One thing I posted was taken from the newspaper and it was a church historian looking into the issue of racism in the LDS church; nothing I wrote. The final remaining few things I posted were quotes and information taken from your LDS scripture, prophets, and presidents. Then, I posted one last thing explaining why I feel you guys are liars and deceitful. Basically what happened was I was looking over Austin’s timeline and I noticed it says he has 481 friends, and I am assuming the vast majority are LDS. I started thinking, it is really strange that not one person has left a comment or liked anything I said or posted. I was looking over things posted by Austin and noticed there were lots of likes and hearts and other things, indicating people look over his timeline and read things he posts and comments. So, I asked my son and my daughter to get on Facebook and go to Austin’s timeline and leave a reply or hit like on things I said, in hopes of maybe getting others to do the same. That was when they told me that nothing I posted was on his timeline and it said I was his one and only friend. So, I got on my wife’s Facebook account and it said the same exact thing. That was when I knew his account is set up so it looks active and like lots of people can see what I post, but in reality, only Austin can. That is very deceitful.
When you guys sent me friends requests, neither of you said that I cannot post anything, or I am limited in what I can post, so that shows you guys are deceitful. I was honest and listened to what Austin asked me to listen to from Tad R. Even if Austin felt I posted so much he could not respond to it all, he could have at least replied to one thing; as he said on Oct 14th and I quote, “Hey Rick, I just wanted to let you know I am not ignoring you. I am continuing to research everything you have given to me.” I have to say, I find this hard to believe due to what I have discovered and the fact that there are zero replies as of yet.
Now moving on to you Kael. After all this came out with Austin, I posted only two things on your timeline. One was a link to my website, and one was the “Bruce McConkie Challenge.” Not even a day had gone by and you removed both, and you never wrote me and told me you did that or gave any reason why. That it why it seems very dishonest of you to do that. I replied I felt that was deceitful to do, and this was your entire reply to me and I quote:
“Hey Rick how’s it going? I’m sorry you feel the way you do but I just wanted to let you know some things. The reason we delete your post from our facebooks is because we have people we teach on here and we don’t want them to see your accusations. We really do appreciate all that’s you’ve told us and the reason we don’t come back over because we know WE can’t change your mind, only the spirit can change your mind and heart. And you are so locked down that you won’t let it change you. We really emphasize the Book of Mormon because it is true, and you have to come to know of it for yourself. Please don’t think we are avoiding you because we are “afraid of the truth,” we just don’t want to cause contentions and all you want to do is try to tear down our testimonies. I will tell you over and over again that this church is true and nothing will change my heart or mind.”
So, Kael, I gotta ask. Did you really think about what you said before you wrote me? Here is why I say that. You said : “I’m sorry you feel the way you do but I just wanted to let you know some things. The reason we delete your post from our Facebook is because we have people we teach on here and we don’t want them to see your accusations.”
What accusations did I make that you needed to remove? I only posted my website and the Bruce Challenge. If you honestly did listen to any shows I did, and there is something in a show that is an accusation by me, please tell me what exactly it was. Otherwise, I am left to believe without evidence that you are lying. As far as the Bruce Challenge, there is not one single accusation in it; it is taken word for word from your apostle. I simply ask, “Where is the evidence for things he said?” It seems you’re bearing false witness.
You said, “We really do appreciate all that’s you’ve told us and the reason we don’t come back over because we know WE can’t change your mind, only the spirit can change your mind and heart. And you are so locked down that you won’t let it change you.” Again, you’re making accusations. Since I told you I am open to the truth and want to talk about these things, you claim I am not. So, you’re, in a polite way, calling me a lair with no evidence. This also means you ignore everything your leaders have said and taught. Your scriptures teach (maybe you are simply ignorant of what was said and taught), things like this: D and C 71:5-11 98:14,23-26 says meet your enemy in public. If I am your enemy, which I don’t feel I am, but if I am, it says meet me in public to talk about this stuff. Jesus said to love your enemy. D and C 66:7 68:1,9 says go into the churches, public, or private to discuss this stuff. D and C 6:9-11 say, “Convince us of our error, if we have any.” Why do I get accused of being hateful for doing what the scriptures teach? Let me add this: would you agree it is good to listen to the Mormon prophets? If so, then I am.
I quote Orsan Pratt, still pg 15.
“We ask from you the same generosity–protect us in the exercise of our religious rights–CONVINCE US of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds”.
Kael, you also said, “We really emphasize the Book of Mormon because it is true”, and you have to come to know of it for yourself. If you really believe this, then 1) you would not need to lie and use deceit, and 2) you would be easily able to read the “Bruce McConkie Challenge” and give me the answers I am looking for listed in it, and 3) Doct of Salvation, vol 2, pg 1 of chapter 1 heading says:
below that it says THE PLAN OF SALVATION.
“TRUTHS of SALVATION EASILY UNDERSTOOD.
Salvation should be a subject uppermost in the minds of all men. It is, without question the most important subject that could possibly be considered, and yet there are so few among the many who pay any attention whatever to this great and important theme, as it may be applied in their lives.”
On pg 9 of Doc of Salvation, vol 2, J.F.S states what I said.
“What is eternal life? It is to have a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. No one receives eternal life except those who receive the exaltation. Eternal life is the greatest gift of God; immortality is not. The Lord says: “Verily verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. everlasting life in this passage is the same as eternal life”.
Lastly you said: “Please don’t think we are avoiding you because we are “afraid of the truth,” we just don’t want to cause contentions and all you want to do is try to tear down our testimonies. I will tell you over and over again that this church is true and nothing will change my heart or mind.”
Again, here is what your prophets and leaders taught.
Mormon President George A. Smith said on page 216 in volume 14 of the J.O.D.
“If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if it’s preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”
Seems to me, your faith is very weak since you guys fight tooth and nail to not have what you believe examined. You feel I am being contentious, so I guess you never read the Book of Jude. It says:
Jude 1:3 “Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.”
Notice it says we are to contend for the faith? Do you know what it means to contend for the faith? Do you know why it says we are to contend for the faith? The next verse answers that question. Jude 1:4 ” For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Also, don’t you find it rather ironic that you said to me, “And you are so locked down that you won’t let it change you”. But, then, you end by saying to me, “I will tell you over and over again that this church is true and nothing will change my heart or mind.” You’re basically telling me, you’re doing and acting the way you accuse me of being. Lastly, you feel I am trying to tear down your testimonies. I never mentioned your testimonies. I was saying: let’s examine all the evidence.
I was looking over my garden and saw that my cucumber plants had little vines (Called tendrils), that would attach themselves to whatever they were able to grab. The tendrils were using the rails and fence surrounding the garden to support themselves. After looking at them, I started thinking, according to atheists and people who believe in evolution and deny God, this just all happened because plants have brains and they know that they needed to do this. Yea right! I believe God created them this way. If you want to believe they evolved this way, all apart from a creator, please feel free to tell me how they just managed to figure this out over time. I am listening.
I would like to talk about atheism and atheists. Before I do, let me briefly say tht I was a hardcore, God-hating atheist for the first 21-22 years of my life. I will not go into any great detail or claim my life is what all atheists are like. I will say, for me, and speaking only of me, that I was so rotten and evil, I was taken to see a physiologist by my mother at the age of 5. I had a restraining order put on me by a pastor of a church at 16,and my dad kicked me out of the house at 16 because I had the police, sheriff, and state troopers over to my house so often that my dad had had enough.
Atheists make the claim that Christians like to say that only people of faith, or Christians, have morals. I am not the type of person to claim things like this or to argue just one side. I, unlike many Christians and atheists, like to look at both sides and be fair to both sides.
If anyone agrees or disagrees, feel free to share your thoughts. At the end of the day, so to speak, everyone sins. We’re all fallen people and we all sin. Now, I know many atheists will say, “I am not a sinner” or “I do not believe in sin,” and that’s fine. If you don’t feel like you sin or are a sinner, then please explain why you as a human, have at one time in your life or another lied, stolen something, have gotten mad to the point you said or thought that you wish someone were dead, etc. Simply put, are you perfect to the point you have never made a mistake? If you are not perfect, can you explain why you are not?
As Christians who believes the Bible, many, but not all, believe in original sin and believe that since Adam and Eve rebelled against God, sin was brought into the human race, and brought a curse upon the land. This is why we have weeds, we suffer pain in child birth, sweat and suffer aches and pains and work by the sweat of our brow, as the Bible says. But for atheists who do not believe in creation, I am only aware of three views as to how we got here on earth. View 1: I don’t know how we got here; I just know its not from God creating us. View 2: Evolution. View 3: Aliens planted us here on the earth. If there are any other views, I honestly have not heard of them, so please fill me in on them. Thanks.
Now, I mention these other views because if you cannot explain how we got here, and just simply refuse to believe in God, that tells me you don’t want to honestly look into the truth. If aliens planted us here, you have faith; faith in aliens, and no evidence. Then that again means, you cannot explain why you are not perfect? In evolution, you have faith in something, with no evidence. Now, I know many, many, atheists that claim there is tons of evidence. That’s a lie. Everyone I know that believes in evolution feels it is science. Even people who deny evolution, will call it science. When it comes to evolution, I understand atheists claim there is tons of evidence, but in reality, there is zero evidence. First of all, how can anyone really prove the “Big Bang” happened? They cannot. Scientists claim, without evidence, that it simply happened. They cannot reproduce anything even remotely close to it. No one can take nothing and create life from it, but God. Scientists cannot take a bunch of gases and add some sparks and create life. There are many scientists who all claim to believe in evolution, yet cannot agree on the exact details, since its all just a guess and hope that it is true. Some scientists claim millions of years, some claim billion of years, some claim evolution happened so fast that it is now over and that’s why we don’t see monkeys or other animals still evolving. Others claim it is still happening, but so slowly, we wont see it play out in our lifetime. Some scientists are now, and have been for a while, starting to question to the point that they think aliens planted us here and helped build the pyramids and other things. Think that’s a joke? Watch the science channel shows like, “Ancient Aliens,” for example. I saw one video on the internet claiming the “Big Bang” did not really happen, and what happened was that we simply always existed. That was from people who teach and believe in evolution. If you believe we evolved, then did we evolve to lie, cheat, steal, murder, have anger issues, and other things? If so, why? What is the purpose in evolving to do these things? Otherwise, did we evolve into a perfect man and women? And if we evolved perfect, then we “fell” at some point, like it or not. Even atheists use laws and law enforcement trying to fight corruption, stop people from killing other people, or putting people behind bars if they try and rape their family members or steal from them. We know, all people, no matter what faith you claim, commit these sins. Yes, even Christians; we don’t claim to be perfect, just forgiven.
For some good info on this subject, go watch the movie by Ben Stein, “No intelligence Required”. As far as that movie goes, Ben is not a bible believing Christian, so he is not making the movie to side with us Christians. In that movie, all the scientists and people who believe in evolution spoke for themselves and they looked like bumbling idiots. One guy claimed we came from crystals on the backs of turtles. I commented that maybe they only crystals was the Crystal Meth he was smoking. Now, I know from talking with atheists about that movie after many watched it, and read various atheists’ blogs and websites, the vast majority of people claimed Ben edited the movie in such a way to make them look like idiots. But my reply to them was and still is, “Not one of the people interviewed ever made a rebuttal movie adding all the information that claim Ben purposely left out. So why is that? I maintain it’s because they are wrong and they have no honest answers.
As far as atheists go, can you explain why your not perfect, and must make, and use laws? We know atheists over the years have committed horrifying atrocities. I know atheists love to pull the religion card on Christians, and claim we do all these horrible things, but ignore all the horrible things other atheists have done and do. According to the Bible, God gave us laws, and we still have those laws and many more humans created. God gave us laws like: do not murder, do not lie, cheat, or steal; but we humans made many more laws God did not give, such as: you must be a certain age to drink, drive, vote, cannot drive past a set speed, or stop at stop signs. Atheists can claim they don’t believe in God and the Bible, but you do follow and use His laws? At least some do. For example, we know many an atheist has killed people, or raped people, or lied, etc. So if you believe in evolution, then explain a few things to me. 1. Why did we not all simply evolve perfect and loving and kind? 2. If you claim we did, then can you explain why we have so much violence in the world? 3. If you claim, its all due to religion; then can you explain all the atheists that don’t follow or believe religion who do horrific acts of murder and violence?
Lets just mention a few atheists who have committed horrific acts of violence upon fellow man; and it cannot be blamed upon religion.
(Google “top 10 Atheists” for the following information)
Napoleon Bonaparte, heavily involved in the anti-clerical French Revolution, was an atheist – he claimed that “all religions have been made by men”. He was one of the best ever military commanders, and conquered much of Europe. He staged a coup and declared himself Emperor. While he ended anarchy in post-Revolution France, many considered him a tyrant and usurper. He ignored treaties and conventions, seeking undisputed rule throughout Europe. He plundered conquered territories. His 17 years of rule resulted in the bankruptcy of France, loss of many of her territories, six million dead Europeans and economic setback in just one generation.
Kim Jong-Il is the de facto leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, and responsible for the deaths of four million of his fellow Koreans.
Jeffrey Dahmer, an infamous serial killer and atheist, sentenced to 900 years in prison, said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?” He brutally killed seventeen men and boys, dismembering them, storing their body parts and indulging in cannibalism and necrophilia. In 1991, he was caught by the police after one of his would-be victims escaped. Despite pleading not guilty on the basis on insanity, the court found him sane and fully accountable. He later expressed remorse.
Jim Jones drew people into atheism through the People’s Temple, largely based in California. He said that he “took the church and used the church to bring people to atheism”. In 1978, 909 people at the restricted communist “sanctuary” he presided over in Jonestown, Guyana, committed “revolutionary suicide” at his command. This occurred after the arrival of an American delegation, which he claimed was conspiring against the People’s Temple. Men, women and children took a vial of cyanide and died within five minutes. Only a few people escaped. This event was the largest single loss of American civilian life, in a non-natural disaster, up until 9/11.
Mussolini is notorious for his war crimes as a Fascist dictator during World War II. As a young man he openly declared his atheism, and in his early career as a politician was openly anti-clerical. He was the Italian leader of the National Fascist Party, became Prime Minister in 1922 and was eventually a dictator who severely restricted freedom of speech. Mussolini supported Hitler’s conquest of Austria. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia, using poison gas, bombing Red Cross hospitals and concentration camps to kill civilians and destroy “inferior” cultures. He ordered the execution of prisoners without trial and the shooting of “witch-doctors”. Italian troops used public executions, hostage taking and burning of villages to crush the Slavic population of Yugoslavia. These acts are now widely considered an attempt at genocide. However, later he tried to associate Fascism with Catholicism in order to garner dwindling support (however his widow made it clear that he was still staunchly atheist). Mussolini was also deeply anti-Semitic.
Mao Zedong led the Communist Party of China to victory in the Chinese Civil War, helping to establish the People’s Republic of China. He had ambitions for a strong China, but his programs largely failed altogether. He has been blamed for the death of between 20 and 67 million of his “comrades”. He also targeted anyone with links to the Chinese Nationalist Party as well as anyone who posed a threat to him. Five million were executed in death camps. 36 million were persecuted and tortured. There were even instances of cannibalism.
Pol Pot was the leader of the Khmer Rouge and Prime Minister of Cambodia from 1976 to 1979, having been de facto leader since mid-1975. During his time in power Pol Pot imposed an extreme version of agrarian communism, where all city dwellers were relocated to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labour projects. The combined effect of slave labour, malnutrition, poor medical care and executions is estimated to have killed around 2 million Cambodians (approximately one third of the population). His regime achieved special notoriety by singling out all intellectuals, and other “bourgeois enemies”, for murder. The Khmer Rouge committed mass executions in sites known as the Killing Fields, and the executed were buried in mass graves. In order to save ammunition, executions were often carried out using hammers, axe handles, spades or sharpened bamboo sticks. His attempts to “cleanse” the country resulted in the deaths of 1.7 to 2.5 million people. He also had an intense dislike of anyone with the semblance of being intelligent, such as those who wore glasses or who spoke another language.1
Stalin-4Stalin was General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central Committee, from 1922 until his death in 1953. Under Stalin’s leadership, the Ukraine suffered a famine (Holodomor) so great it is considered by many to be an act of genocide on the part of Stalin’s government. Estimates of the number of deaths range from 2.5 million to 10 million. The famine was caused by direct political and administrative decisions. In addition to the famine, Stalin ordered purges within the Soviet Union of any person deemed to be an enemy of the state (i.e. capitalists, theists). In total, estimates of the total number murdered under Stalin’s reign, range from 10 million to 60 million. His government promoted atheism with mass propaganda in school, and held a terror campaign against the religious. He crushed the Russian Orthodox Church, leveling thousands of churches and shooting more than 100,000 priests, monks and nuns between 1937 and 1938.N.B.
We’re looking at the low end just from a few of these men in the range of 100 million dead. This is from atheists.
I know many atheists will complain and say that when it comes to religion, people kill in the name of their God, or there leaders; atheists don’t have a leader that they follow and do not answer to a god that they claim told them to kill. I would say, that’s not true. All the dictators I named did not kill millions of people all by themselves. They had people who worked for them and answered to them following orders, so it was lots of atheists, following orders of a leading atheist dictator. Now just like atheists, there are religions who have done evil things. I, for one, am not denying this or claiming it never happened. But I am saying: 1. I get tired of atheists acting like they never do these things and its only Christians who do. 2. All these religions who kill in the name of their gods – Mormonism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and many, many other religions are not Christians. Stop acting like its only Christians, and all other religions do not do these things. Also, true, bible believing, God-fearing Christians do not go out and kill in the name of Jesus.
This proves people who claim Christians do kill, have either never read the Bible, or they claim they read the Bible and ignore what it says. The Bible tells us, we are not to hate anyone, and not to commit murder. Jesus even said, not everyone who says, Lord , Lord will enter heaven, and Jesus said, you are of your father the devil, and Jesus and the Bible tells us, we are not of God if we hate a brother, or we do evil things. I have meet many Christians who hate it when I say this, but they hate it because they really dont care what the Bible says, they dont care about truth, and they simply want to blame Christians. So if people claim Christians killed people in the crusades or maybe someone claiming to kill an abortion doctor because they are a christian, or God told them to do it, they are liars and not true, bible believing Christians.
Why is it, if someone claims to be a christian, and they kill someone, atheists claim he must be a christian, because he said he was, and therefore, I am standing by what he said, he is a Christian? But, if someone dresses up on Halloween as a cop and robs someone, no one claims they were really a cop; they know they were using it as a ruse. Take John Wayne Gacy. He dressed up as a clown and murdered many people, yet no one says, “Well, I guess he was a clown,” so he gives clowns a bad name. People know better. They just keep it on people claiming to be Christians, but everyone else is just faking.
We can also look at people who were/are atheists who did not kill people, but still did/do sick twisted things such as molest kids, or rape women, or rob banks, etc. Here is one example: Alfred Kinsey was an infamous American biologist and professor of entomology and zoology, who made groundbreaking research on human sexuality. Undoubtedly, he helped to progress social values – but, nevertheless, he took sadistic pleasure out of his research, and did some very weird stuff, including exploiting children for sex.
How does someone like Alfred Kinsey evolve into a person who does such vile things? Since Atheists deny morals come from God, then who decided what was right and what was wrong? Who was it that said, “Rape is wrong and we will make laws saying so?” Who decided it was wrong? How come the rapists did not say, “No, its good and don’t judge me and tell me what I can and cannot do?” Or we could say the same about murder, lying, stealing, etc. Who decided? Did they vote upon it and the majority ruled? It seems if we look around, the prisons are overflowing and keep being built, and the courts keep making more laws, and more cops are being added. When will it start getting better? Why does it seem to get worse? Look around the world. It’s getting worse and worse. Let’s not forget: we had 2 world wars, plus civil wars, and all the minor wars throughout the world. How is this explained apart from sin? If you resort to blaming religion, then I must repeat, what about all the atheists who kill and mass murder.
Now here are some quotes from former scientists; some might be dead now, but scientists non the less.
The Conventional Picture of human evolution is a completely Human Invention created after the fact, shaped to accord with human prejudices. To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a linage IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC HYPOTHESIS THAT CAN BE TESTED, But an assertion that carries the SAME VALIDITY AS A BEDTIME STORY- amusing, perhaps even instructive, BUT NOT SCIENTIFIC. Henry Gee, “In search of deep time, beyond the fossil Record to a new History of life”, Nature Magazine 1999
Another quote by Mr Henry:
“The Intervals of time that separate fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry and descent. Each fossil is an isolated point, with no knowable connection to any other given fossil, and all float around in overwhelming sea of gaps. All the fossil evidence for human evolution between ten and five million years ago- several thousand generations of living creatures-can be fitted into a small Box” Henry Gee, “In search of deep time, beyond the fossil Record to a new History of life”, Nature Magazine 1999
At least he is honest, the evidence is pretty much next to zero.
This scientist, George Wald who is/was a Harvard Professor Emeritus of Biology, and a 1971 Nobel prize winner in Biology said this:
There are only two possible explanations as to how life arose: Spontaneous Generation arising to evolution or a supernatural creative act of God…
There is no other possibility.
Spontaneous generation was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others, But that leaves us with only one other possibility…
that life came as a supernatural act of creation of God, but I can’t accept that philosophy because I do not want to believe in God.
Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation leading to evolution.
George Wald “Origin, life and evolution,” Scientific American (1978).
I have said many time over and over, evolution, and believing in evolution, is a religion. Since everyone tries to tell me I am wrong, then think about what this guy says.
Michael Ruse considers himself both an atheist and agnostic, but believes that “new atheism” is a disservice to science and loathes the term “Humanist”.
In his book “The Evolution-creation struggle” Michael Ruse interprets the last 200 years of conflict between biology and religion as a struggle between evolutionism and Creationism. Evolutionism is not merely an endorsement of the scientific theory of evolution. It consists of “the whole metaphysical or ideological picture built around or on evolution.” As such, it constitutes a “Secular Religion.” Thus for Ruse (a philosopher of science at Florida State University), the debate over Creationism and Evolutionism is more a conflict between Two Religions than one between Religion and Science. The Journal of Science July 22, 2005
So, we have an atheist and agnostic who teaches in school that evolution is a religion. He claims to hate God and denies God, yet claims evolution and creation are two religions competing.
There is no known law of nature, no known process and no known sequence of events which can cause information to originate by itself in matter. Werner Gitt, Professor, German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology, (Quoted June 2000)
Lets look at the “Scientific method.” It goes like this.
1. State the problem
2. Formulate the problem
3. Make observations
4. Design the experiment
5. Interpret data
6. Draw conclusions
7. Report results
Now many atheists have stated this method to me when I say I don’t agree with certain points in science.
I never said I don’t agree with science period. I do. I am a professional chef and baker with 30 plus years experience, and baking is really science.
Now apply these points to the Big Bang.
1. State the problem (How did we get here?) Or where did human life come from?
2. Formulate the problem It was either God who created us, Or we simply don’t know how we got here and can only ASSUME we came via the Big Bang, or maybe aliens, or as one guy stated, or crystals on the backs of turtles.
3. Make observations (We cannot do this)
4. Design the experiment (We cannot do this)
5. Interpret data (We cannot do this)
6. Draw conclusions (We can only do this by faith with out evidence)
7. Report results (We have no results to report)
So, I’m not opposed to science. I’m simply saying evolution, like belief in God, is a FAITH. You cannot prove evolution in a lab by the “Scientific Method.”
Since you cannot, you must simply believe it took place; that is called faith.
If evolution is true and can and has been proved, then please explain these quotes?
The Anthropic Principle, simply stated, is the fine tuning of the physical universe to allow life to exist on this planet. In order to reach this mind boggling degree of fine tuning with so many different parameters, smacks of some form of intelligent Design. According to Penrose, it had to have been accurate to with in one part in 10 to 10(123), and this is a number so vast that it cannot be written on apiece of paper the size of the entire visible Universe!. Michael A. Corey (The God Hypothesis).
That’s a pretty big chance that we arrived by the “Big Bang” or random chance.
How about this:
The occurrence of any event where the chances are beyond 1 in 10 followed by 50 zeros is an event which we CAN STATE WITH CERTAINTY WILL NEVER HAPPEN, no matter how much time is alloted and no matter how many conceivable opportunities could exist for the event to take place. Emile Borel Probabilities and life, 1962.
Now, that’s two Scientists who don’t think life just arose, yet you won’t care because they disagree with you.
Here is a third:
The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a number with 40,000 zeros after it…
It is big enough bury Darwin and the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence. Fred Hoyle PH.D Hoyle on Evolution, Nature November 1981.
A team of Australian Scientists led by theoretical physicists Paul Davis has proposed that the speed of light may not be a constant, a revolutionary idea that could unseat one of the most cherished laws of modern physics- Einstein’s theory of relativity. If so, physicists will have to rethink many of their basic ideas about the laws of the universe. When one of the cornerstones of physics collapses. It is not obvious what you hang onto and what you discard, Davis said. Scientific journal Nature, August 8 2002
The cosmos contains roughly 10(90) bits of information. By factoring in the available energy and the speed of light, Lloyd estimates the universe could have performed at most 10(120) logical operations since the big bang. Lloyd says, “If we wanted to simulate the universe on a computer, such a computer would have to be as powerful as the universe it’s self. In reality, we can only make crude approximations, because all the computer that ever existed on earth have carried out just 10(31) operations.
Now let me end the issue of Science with this:
There is a pretty big name professor in evolution; his name is Jerry Allen Coyne. There is info about him; you can simply google his name and this all will come up.
He is an American professor of biology, known for his work on speciation and his commentary on intelligent design. A prolific scientist and author, he has published dozens of papers elucidating the theory of evolution. I mention this guy because he is a Ph.D. Professor Department of Ecology and Evolution Biological Sciences in Chicago, and around a year or so ago I reached out to him and ask him if he would be willing to come on my radio show and talk to me about evolution vs creation. Without hesitation, he wrote back and said, “No way.” We went back and forth with a few emails, and he was adamant that he wanted nothing to do with me. I did mention him on my radio show, as I told him I would. Then, I posted an article on my website with our emails proving our exchange. I must say, “Wow, a professor with a PH.D and pretty serious credentials won’t talk with me on my radio show.”
I get so tired of people who are not Christians claiming God is love, love, love, and never said anything harsh or mean to anyone or about anything. I also get tired of people claiming to be Bible-believing Christians and say they read the Bible, who also claim God is love, rainbows, kittens, and fluff, and never said or did any thing that was harsh or mean. As a Bible=believing Christian, I teach and believe and agree that God is love and loves us sinful humans. If you read the Bible, Jesus, and His apostles, all through the N.T, said and did many things that appear mean or harsh or unloving. Don’t misunderstand me. Jesus and the apostles did not say things that were mean and rotten, but it’s due to our “politically correct, snowflake, cannot offended anyone with truth” society.
It’s these types of people who say, “The Bible says ‘Do not Judge,'” yet miss the verses that tell us to judge. They ignore, or reject, the verses that have Jesus telling people they were wrong, were in err of scripture, are going to hell; or the apostles calling down blindness or people dropping dead for lying to God, or how were told were evil, and no one is good. These same people miss the verses that tell us to correct, rebuke and exhort and correct one another. So, here is a massive list of verses that teach or say these things; almost every book in the N.T is used. I mention so many verses because if I just mention 2 or 3, people will say, “That proves nothing,” or “That’s not enough.” So, I am giving tons of verses. If you look them over and you feel one or a few are missing, feel free to add them. I am not, and have not, given every single verse.
Below is a quote from someone I know. They replied to a topic of mine. The topic was a picture of Matthew chapter 7. It’s all scratched out with a black marker. The only 2 words not scratched out, but instead are circled with a red marker say, “JUDGE NOT.” The caption says, “How people in our world “read” the bible today.” Below is how one person views Jesus as a passivist and would deny all the verses I am going to post. This guy is not the only one to say things like this; many claiming to be Christians do the same thing.
Stephen Merl Phillips II said, “Attacking anyone is not Christian Teaching. Christ was a passivist. lol Have you not read his journey? Not once did he speak out against anything, other than corrupt church and government. Not people individually, even after he was snitched on by one of his own buddies, did he say one foul word about him. It is not the bibles words, it is the story behind the words. The moral compass in which we should desire to walk.”
Here are the verses:
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mark 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
Mark 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mark 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Luke 9:41 And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither.
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Luke 11:40 Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luke 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
J0hn 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Act 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Act 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
1Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 16:22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
2Cor 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Phl 3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 3:6 For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
1John 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
2John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Rape
|by||Kyle Butt, M.Div.|
One prevalent idea in skeptical circles is that the God of the Old Testament is cruel and condones practices that are immoral. Each example that skeptics have provided to prove this thesis, however, has been shown to be false. We see time and again that the God of the Old Testament is the same God of love that we observe in the life and personality of Jesus Christ. One passage that is incorrectly used to impugn God’s character is Deuteronomy 22:28-29. Moses wrote:
If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
According to the skeptic, these verses teach that a man who rapes a woman gets to have her as his wife. The skeptic then demands that any God who would reward a rapist with the woman he rapes is wicked and immoral. Thus the God of the Bible cannot be the loving God Christians say He is.
The reason the skeptic at first glance seems to have something of a case is simply because most English translations of these verses do not accurately render the original intent of the Hebrew. To be fair, this issue causes even those who are not skeptically minded some difficulty. When most English speakers hear that a person has “seized” another person, we necessarily jump to the conclusion that it is a violent action against the will of the other person. This problem has been aggravated by the fact that some translations inaccurately and mistakenly translate the word as “rape.” The truth is, however, the Hebrew word in this case translated “seizes” (tapas) can mean many things. Here are some examples of the way it is translated in Deuteronomy 22:28 in several different English translations:
- “lay hold on her” (ASV)
- “taking her” (DRA)
- “and takes her” (NLV/NAB)
- “and hath caught her” (YLT).
By looking at other passages that use the word, we can see that the word tapas sometimes has nothing to do with force, and therefore nothing to do with rape. As Greg Bahnsen has written:
The Hebrew word tapas (“lay hold of her,” emphasized above) simply means to take hold of something, grasp it in hand, and (by application) to capture or seize something. It is the verb used for “handling” the harp and flute (Gen. 4:21), the sword (Ezek. 21:11; 30:21), the sickle (Jer. 50:16), the shield (Jer. 46:9), the oars (Ezek. 27:29), and the bow (Amos 2:15). It is likewise used for “taking” God’s name (Prov. 30:9) or “dealing” with the law of God (Jer. 2:8). Joseph’s garment was “grasped” (Gen. 39:12; cf. 1 Kings 11:30), even as Moses “took” the two tablets of the law (Deut. 9:17)… [T]he Hebrew verb “to handle, grasp, capture” does not in itself indicate anything about the use of force (italics in orig.).
In truth, we use English words in this way on a regular basis. For instance, a brief look at the English word “take” illustrates the point. You can take someone’s cookie, or take a person’s wife, or take a bride to be your wife. The idea of force is not inherent in the word at all. If you take a person in your arms, what have you done? Or if a young man takes a young woman to be his wife, is there force involved? No. Also, think about the English word “hold.” You can take hold of something in a number of ways. We often say that a woman will hold the child in her arms, or a bridegroom takes a bride to “have and to hold.” The Hebrew word tapas is acting in exactly the same way as the English words “hold” and “take” are.
In addition, it is clearly evident from the immediate context of Deuteronomy 22 that rape is not being discussed in verses 28-29. We know that for two primary reasons. First, verses 25-27 give a clear instance in which rape is being discussed. In that case, a man raped a woman, she “cried out” (v. 27), but she was in the country and no one was there to help her. The text says that the man who committed the crime “shall die” (v. 25), but the Israelites were supposed to “do nothing to the young woman” since “there is in the young woman no sin worthy of death” (v. 26). It is of great interest that in this clear case of rape, the text uses a completely different word. The word translated “forces her” in verse 25 is the Hebrew word chazaq and yet in verse 28, the verb has been intentionally changed to tapas (see Shamoun, 2015). Second, the natural reading of verses 28-29 makes it evident that both parties are guilty of at least some of the blame. Notice that at the end of verse 28 the text says, “and they are found out.” When the passage discusses the obvious case of rape, the text specifically only mentions the man in verse 25 when it says “then only the man who lay with her,” and conspicuously leaves out any indication of “they” being involved in the sin. Dr. Bahsen compares Deuteronomy 22:28-29 to Exodus 22:16, which reads, “If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife” (1992). Notice that in this verse in Exodus, there is no force and both parties shoulder some of the guilt.
The practical value of God’s instruction in Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is easy to see. A man has sexual intercourse with a young woman who is not betrothed to anyone. There is no force involved, and it is not rape. But their action has been discovered. Now, who in the land of Israel wanted to marry a young girl who has not kept herself pure? The man cannot walk away from his sin. He has put the young woman in a very difficult life situation, in which there would be few (or no) other men who would want to marry her. Since it was often the case that women had an extremely difficult time financially without the help of a husband, this would be even more devastating to the young woman. God holds both the parties accountable, instructing them to get married and stay together, both suffer the shame, and work through the difficulties that they have brought on themselves. Nothing could be more moral, loving, and wise than these instructions. Once again, the skeptical charge against God’s love is without foundation.
Bahnsen, Greg (1992), “Premarital Sexual Relations: What is the Moral Obligation When Repeated Incidents are Confessed,” Covenant Media Foundation, http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pe152.htm.
Shamoun, Sam (2015), “The Old Testament and Rape,” http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ot_and_rape.htm.