Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible.

Here is a letter I sent to one of the Mormons I have been keeping in touch with. Its close to two weeks and I have not heard back from him, I kind of suspect he will not reply back. I asked him a question about the bible and he replied back, so this was my reply to him and nothing back yet. But if he replies I will let you know.

This was my first question to Him.
Hello, How is it going?
I have two questions, one I have been meaning to ask any Mormon, but have never gotten around to asking any.
Do Mormons believe in the rapture of the church? I have never seen anything on this issue, and never seen or heard anyone ever speak about it, so if you do, it really is a new one to me.

My next question is about A of F 8.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

If LDS teach that the word of God is not really translated correctly, then can you give me a list of verses that you or the LDS church feel are not translated correctly? and give the correct translation. I ask because as you know, I am reading the KJV of the Bible, but it was printed from the LDS church and has all the LDS foot notes and maps in the back. I have other non-LDS KJ bibles and they are all the same. So if any verses are not correct, and there is no indication or nothing stating the LDS K J bible says, these verses are translated incorrectly, and giving any “corrected” verses, then it leads me to believe A of F 8 is wrong. And from all the LDS books, and articles and any teachings I have heard from sitting in on LDS services or videos I have seen, any time the Bible is ever quoted from, it is the KJ version and never is it stated, that the verse was translated incorrectly and here is the correct translation. Also here is something

B.YOUNG said,
I ask you, brother B, how I must believe the Bible, and how shall you and every other follower of the Lord Jesus Christ believe it? BY replies with. “Brother Mormon, how do you believe it?” I believe it just as it is. I do not believe in putting any man’s interpretation upon it, whatever, unless it should be directed by the Lord himself in some way. I do not believe we need interpreters and expounders of the Scriptures, to wrest them from there literal, plain, simple meaning. In the book Discourses of BY pg 194 1925 edition also found in JOD vol 1 pg 237

B, Young never gave any reason to believe the Bible was translated incorrectly. I have asked this same question before to other Mormons, Non have been able to answer me. If you could, that would be great, if you cannot, maybe, its because the Bible is correct, and not wrong. Thanks. Rick
Now this was the reply back from the Mormons.

Yes we do believe in the rapture. It talks about it in the Book of revelations which as you know is in the Bible and we believe in that so yeah.

Okay as for the Bible verses. There is something that we have called the Joseph smith translation of the Bible. Where we believe that Joseph received revelation to translate the Bible. We have a list of some the changes he made. Some of them are in the footnotes of the KJV Bible that our church has and also we have a section of Korean of his translations. These can be found in our gospel library app under scriptures. Or I believe in the back of the pearl of great price. Or you can find it on LDS.org.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
lds.org
Official website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). Find messages of Christ to uplift your soul and invite the Spirit.
This was my reply to him, and since this was sent, I have not heard back from them as of yet.

Hello, Thanks for your reply’s. Like I said, I never heard or read any mention of the rapture from LDS sources, so I never honestly knew where you guys stood.
Now on the Issue of the J.S.T of the Bible, I do not agree with you on this and fully believe you have been mis-informed and are wrong.
First of all, I believe I showed you my copy of the J.S.T as I do own a copy. Yes the LDS church uses bits and pieces of the J.S.T but they do not use it fully or trust it fully. I had to by my copy over the Internet as at the time I bought it, the local LDS book store did not sell it and said they dont as the church does not own the full rights to the Book.

First off, lets start with JS and HIS Bible. If you read the Articles of Faith (A of F) number 8, it says,
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
First problem is, The LDS do not fully trust the Bible as being both accurate or the Word of God. Now we read in the Doctrine and Covenants (D and C) Chapter 71 in the heading above that chapter.
SECTION 71
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.
Then we read in D and C chapter 73
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, January 10, 1832. HC 1: 241–242. Since the early part of the preceding December, the Prophet and Sidney had been engaged in preaching, and by this means much was accomplished in diminishing the unfavorable feelings that had arisen against the Church (see heading to Section 71).
1–2, Elders are to continue to preach; 3–6, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are to continue to translate the Bible until it is finished.

1 For verily, thus saith the Lord, it is expedient in me that they should continue preaching the gospel, and in exhortation to the churches in the regions round about, until conference;

2 And then, behold, it shall be made known unto them, by the voice of the conference, their several missions.

3 Now, verily I say unto you my servants, Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, saith the Lord, it is expedient to translate again;

4 And, inasmuch as it is practicable, to preach in the regions round about until conference; and after that it is expedient to continue the work of translation until it be finished.

5 And let this be a pattern unto the elders until further knowledge, even as it is written.

6 Now I give no more unto you at this time. Gird up your loins and be sober. Even so. Amen.
Please remember, both while reading what I write now and when and if you ever talk to the LDS about this, the Heading above the Chapter 73 says, They were to finish the translation. This is very important for the reason of, many LDS have told me and do teach, that JS never finished the Translation. You can go to the LDS fair boards and either talk about the JST and you will have LDS tell you JS never finished or you can look up under my user name (rick b)fairlds and read all of my talks as they arcive everything. The link provide will take you to all of my posts, you can read over the pages and look up the talks on the JST and after you click on them you can read what everyone else said. I talked with LDS on the FairLDS board who told me JS never finished his work of translation.

This is a very serious problem, which I will cover. Lets look at D and C 76:15
15 For while we were doing the work of translation, which the Lord had appointed unto us
And D and C 93:53
53 And, verily I say unto you, that it is my will that you should hasten to translate my scriptures, and to obtain a knowledge of history, and of countries, and of kingdoms, of laws of God and man, and all this for the salvation of Zion. Amen.
Now if you see TV, or book or web ad’s for the LDS offering a BoM or even a Bible, they NEVER offer you a JST of the Bible. And when you speak with them and they quote from the Bible, you will notice they almost never quote from the JST of the Bible. I would really have to Ask and I guess I am going to ask, If JS really is a prophet of God, The lds is the True Church and God really did tell JS to translate the Bible, Why do the LDS not use it or pass it out?

I will give what I believe are some reasons why. First, JS is nothing more than a false prophet who came as a wolf in sheep’s clothing. But the LDS don’t believe this, so hear are some reasons I have heard given by them over the years. When JS was killed in the jail, Brigham Young took over as the next president of the LDS church. Depending on who you talk to or believe for that matter, there was a split in the Church, we had the LDS who followed BY, and the RLDS who followed Joseph Smith’s son.

The rlds at the time believed Joseph Smiths son was ment to be the next President of the LDS Church, not BY. Joseph’s Wife, Lucy, followed her son. She owned the copy of the JST of the Bible. BY wanted it, but lucy would not give it up. So finally BY dismissed it as flawed. Now the LDS claim the RLDS own the rights to the book.

I have to ask these questions, If the LDS really believe the Church fell into a total apostasy, and the Bible is not accurate, and God clearly told JS to translate the Bible again, As was clearly laid out, why would God allow one group to own the copy rights on His word and therefore the Church that WAS supposed to have it and use it, see it basically fall into a some what corrupted state again?

I happen to own a copy of the JST of the Bible, and when you read in the preface of the JST of the Bible, it states, ( “Completion” Possibly not final).

Now as far as manuscripts go and there being different ones, I fell in a little more general sense, I believe some translations are created simply to make money. Is that wrong? Yes I believe marketing the gospel is wrong. But some translations were created because not everyone has the time to learn Greek, Hebrew, Latin or other languages. But to be fair, JS did teach the German translation was more accurate, So why don’t the LDS use the German translation instead of the KJV?

Briefly take the KJV of the Bible, honestly some people have a hard time reading the old KJV, And all of the Thee’s and Thou’s Etc. So they made things like the NKJV. But for the LDS who might want to argue that these are not valid or Good, I would ask this, Why do the LDS read the NKJV, or the NiV, or other translations? If you think they Don’t, go to the fairlds board and ask the LDS over there, they have mentioned using them many times.

Now onto the JST, a lds member I was speaking to on a web board named Grorc said… The LDS church publishes and uses the JST translation of the Bible. Almost every member has one. I don’t understand your statement to the contrary.

The reason I said what I did is this: as a general statement, the LDS members do not use the JST. As to the LDS church publishing the JST, Unless things have changed over the years, The RLDS publish the JST and Not the LDS Church. Now here are some things that I find to be problems, either with the JST or the LDS Church’s use and lack of use of it, or how they word things about it. Example, some LDS feel it was a completed finished piece of work, others do not. If the LDS cannot agree as to the JST being finished or not, how can I trust it or the LDS church to get their facts correct in other areas. Also LDS members do not Accept the RLDS church as being an LDS Church. They feel the RLDS Church are nothing more than an Apostate Church. If the LDS do not Accept the RLDS Church and do view them as being Apostate or wrong in many areas, why would God tell JS to “Correct” the Bible, only to allow it to be “re-corrupted” By going to any other Church than the true Church?

So the Question is this, If JS was a “True Prophet” Of God and God told JS to Correct, alter or Fix the JS bible in any way, Why is BY downplaying it by not using it, making mention of it and even saying the Bible is Good enough as is? B.YOUNG said,
I ask you, brother B, how I must believe the Bible, and how shall you and every other follower of the Lord Jesus Christ believe it? BY replies with. “Brother Mormon, how do you believe it?” I believe it just as it is. I do not believe in putting any man’s interpretation upon it, whatever, unless it should be directed by the Lord himself in some way. I do not believe we need interpreters and expounders of the Scriptures, to wrest them from there literal, plain, simple meaning. In the book Discourses of BY pg 194 1925 edition also found in JOD vol 1 pg 237

Another question would be, if the Bible is not Correct in what it teaches and cannot fully be trusted to the Point where JS needed to “Correct” or “Re-translate” The Bible, Why does Jesus and the apostles Quote from it? Granted only the Old Testament was around when they Quoted from it, But JS Did “Correct” Portions of the OT. So why did God wait almost 2,000 years for JS to be born to correct the error, when Jesus or the Disciples could have corrected it?

Sadly not every LDS owns a copy or uses it. I have NEVER in my life meet one LDS missionary who has come to my house and brought a JST with them and use only that in place of the “Corrupted” KJV. And the TV ads only offer the KJV, Not the JST. I spent two weeks in SLC taking the entire temple tour and walking the Streets talking to people, toured the book store, looked over the Books and Bibles and BoM laying around at tables throughout the temple area for people to pick up and read, and guess what? Not once did I ever see a JST of the Bible lying around.

About 2 years ago I purposely went through Official LDS books I own, Every time I came across a Scripture that an LDS prophet, President or even Just the average Joe Mormon when they quoted or used a scripture, I looked to see whether it was the “Corrupted” and untrustworthy KJV, Or whether it was the Corrected JST. Guess what? For almost every 10 scriptures I found, maybe one was the JST, The rest were KJV. Why?

I will do this again when I get time and Document every source right down to the page number, so people can see for themselves, That the LDS tend to use the KJV or the Inspired version. So much for God Commanding JS to “Correct” a flawed Bible.

Here is something I find funny. LDS claim we must perform “Works” To help in our salvation. I claim Grace alone not works, So in the book Evidences and Reconciliations, pg 353-354 we read
It is not really correct to say that the prophet translated the Bible. Rather, he corrected errors in the Bible, and under revelation added long statements.
So either the LDS author is correct and JS “corrected” the Bible, or the Author is wrong and he must have learned this from the LDS he sits under. Also as an LDS he is simply not able to just write a book and produce it with out first having it examined. Now I point this out for this reason, in the KJV of the Bible, we read in Romans 3:28
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Now we read in the JST in Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith ALONE without the deeds of the law.
We read in the JST of Romans, only one word was added to that passage to supposedly correct it, the word ALONE. Houston, we have a problem. Either we are saved by grace alone, or we are saved by grace, AFTER ALL WE CAN DO. Yet God supposedly told JS to correct the Bible.

Another problem we have is this, JS claims that the book of Malachi is “correct” yet the angel Moroni quotes it differently. Joseph Smith history 1:36-39. So is the Prophet correct, or the Angel who told JS about the golden plates correct?

Another problem we read is this, As I quoted in part one, from the D and C, God Supposedly told JS and Sidney Rigdon to complete the JST of the Bible. But we read in the Preface to the JST it is possibly not complete. LDS over on the Fairlds board will tell you it is not complete. Where are the LDS that feel it is not complete getting there information? We read in the 1993-94 Church Almanac pg 339 under July 2 The prophet Joseph Smith finished the translation of the Bible

Then in the 2003 Church Almanac 536 again under July 2, it states JS finished the New Testament.
But sadly, the Prophet and President Joseph F. Smith feels it was not finished.
The reason that it has not been published by the Church is due to the fact that this revision was not completed…due to persecution and mobbing this opportunity never came, so that the manuscript was left with only a partial version.
Then we read in the JST pg 11
Changes made at some points in the inspired version were not followed consistently…. Some passages were corrected, but the parallel references were not corrected….Mormon authors Sperry and Van Wagoner have pointed out that the Psalms are evidence of the incompleteness of the translation.
We read in Times and Seasons Vol VI pg 802 that the JST was completed.

Why is it if the JST is not really complete, have any of the so called “prophets of god” Corrected it. If it really is fully and truly corrected, why not fully use, promote and endorse it? If as these people and sources are correct, and the JST of the Bible is not complete, then God must be a failure, because not only did he commanded JS to finish the job, but this denies the teaching of 1 Nephi 3:7
7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
Kind of strange, that the BoM claims God will not command you to do something unless He makes it possible for you to do it. But then Commands JS to COMPLETE the JST of the Bible, then allows JS to fail. Even Bruce M claims in the book Mormon Doctrine pg.383 claims the JST is not complete.
Now lets cover some problems I find in the JST of the Bible, then ask some questions.

First problem I find is this, why is it JS simply copied some verses word for word and claimed he correct these verse, when in fact their is not a single change made? below are some examples.
KJV:
Exd 2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

JST:
Exd 2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

KJV:
Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.

JST:
Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.

KJV:
Lev 7:14 And of it he shall offer one out of the whole oblation [for] an heave offering unto the LORD, [and] it shall be the priest’s that sprinkleth the blood of the peace offerings.

JST:
Lev 7:14 And of it he shall offer one out of the whole oblation [for] an heave offering unto the LORD, [and] it shall be the priest’s that sprinkleth the blood of the peace offerings.

KJV:
Lev 7:32 And the right shoulder shall ye give unto the priest [for] an heave offering of the sacrifices of your peace offerings.

JST:
Lev 7:32 And the right shoulder shall ye give unto the priest [for] an heave offering of the sacrifices of your peace offerings.
I could go on with a ton more verses, But it even states in the JST on Page 11, Psalms 1-11 and 18-32 are exactly word for word as the KJV? How is this Correct or inspired as JS claims?

Then their are some verses in the JST where their is only one single letter added or on single word changed, and it still works out to saying the same exact thing. Examples are below. the word(s) in the JST that differ from the KJV will be put in ().
KJV:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

JST:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down (out of ) heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

KJV:
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

JST:
Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, (a) hundred [and] forty [and] four cubits, [according to] the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Notice in the verse 21:17 the word (AN) has the single letter (N) dropped. this really makes no change to the word. anyone simply could argue in favor of either version that the single letter added or removed is nothing more than a typo.

Here is another verse that I simply do not see how it could be “corrected” or “inspired”
KJV:
1Timothy 3:8 Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre.

1Timothy 3:8 Likewise the deacons must [be] grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre.
Notice that the only change between the verses are simply the movement of the word (MUST). How is this a correction? The JST is so full of stuff like this it is not even funny.

Then we read in KJV of the Book of Revelation 22:18-19
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
Now my point on these verses is this, JS did not touch these verses, so he must have felt they were translated correctly, or God must have felt they were fine. Anyway, If these verses are correct to the point they were not changed in anyway, then this poses a problem, even if LDS feel these verses only apply to the Book of Revelation and no other book, then JS did make changes to the book of Revelation. So why would God put these verses in the Book, only to later have JS turn around and “correct” the Book.

If God is really all knowing, and if He is not the author of confusion, it would stand to reason, He would have foreseen the changes that needed to be made to the book of revelation, so why would God put these two verses in the book in the first place?

Then there are 9 books JS felt were correct and never changed, both in the Old and New testaments.
If we add to that, all the verses that were not changed, all the verses that were altered, but those mean nothing in the sense of, one single letter was added or removed like with the example of (A) verses (AN), then the more serious changes that were made are really so few, it would stand to reason that the majority of the Bible is accurate. And seeing as how the LDS feel it is not Accurate, who is correct. The Bible or JS?

Here are a few Examples of what I mean by, some books have very few to almost no changes.
The Book of 2 Corinthians is 13 Chapters long, JS only changed 9 chapters. but out of those 9 chapters 6 of those Chapters only have 1-2 verses changed, and 2 more chapters have 3 verses changed.

Then in 1st Thessalonians is 5 Chapters. JS only changed 4 chapters, but 2 chapters only have 1 verse changed, 2 Chapters have 2 verses changed, and 1 Chapter has 3 verses changed.

The one page book of Philemon has only one verse changed. And the same with the book of Jude, only one verse changed. My point on this is simply this, These changes are major enough, that JS altered the Word of God, yet most Changes are minor enough that you really have to ask, how can you say, these are corrections?

Now here are some more questions.

Brigham Young said
In the Bible are the words of life and salvation . We are believers in the Bible…its precepts, doctrine, and prophecy…We take this book, the Bible…for our guide, for our rule of action; we take it as the foundation of our faith.
Discourses of BY, PG 124-125.

I think it is really confusing for BY to say what he did, Knowing that the Bible was “Corrected” by JS from a revelation of God.

Then again, BY on pg 126, goes onto say,
With us the Bible is the first book, then the book of mormon comes next.
Then many years later we read,
The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints accepts the Holy Bible as the foremost of her standard works, first among the books which have been proclaimed as her written guides in faith and Doctrine. (A of F , Talmage p.236)
a

Now, According to A of F number 8, the Bible not translated correctly. If this is true, then can you tell me what part is NOT TRANSLATED Correctly?

How do you come to the conclusion you did, if you even answered the question?

Can you give me a list of ten inaccurate translations?

Can you list any errors that are now in the Bible? if so, how did you come to that conclusion?

If God really did tell JS to “correct error” in the Bible, why are you still using a corrupt version?

According to D and C 124:89
89 If he will do my will let him from henceforth hearken to the counsel of my servant Joseph, and with his interest support the cause of the poor, and publish the new translation of my holy word unto the inhabitants of the earth.
God says, the JST is His Holy Word. so why all the problems that are both found in the JST and the fact that BY and others (talmage), For one, seem to teach the Bible is Superior, why?

Now here are some things that the Bible teaches.
John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

1John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
If the Bible, Gods Holy Word, says this stuff about it, and it is incorrect, then first off, how can I trust anyone, if God allows His word to be corrupted? Then if it really is Gods word, and it is useful for correcting Error, and I cannot trust it, then how can I trust JS. If he really heard from God, to correct error, but had much error himself, both in the JST and the BoM, with the 4,000 plus changes, Who can I trust? Rick b