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Info for people who claim I am mean and unloving and not Christ Like.

I want to discuss a few different things here. The first thing I want to bring up is that I was talking with some guy on Facebook about evidence for the Bible. You can go and listen to the podcast on my website and listen to what I said. But what I want to mention is this, this guy I was talking with via Facebook listened to my show via my invite to do so. He wrote me a private email and claims I lied about him and got my facts wrong about him. I have no reason to lie about anyone. Here is part of the problem: 3 different times I have told people I am going to talk about them on my radio show, and all three times the entire topic I was talking about was completely deleted. I was not the one who deleted the topics. So, if these people delete the topics at hand, then they have no room to complain. Not one of these people would come on my show and debate me; they all said no. I will quote exactly what this guy said about why he won’t come on my show.

Joey said “No, I won’t come on your show. Not because I don’t have answers for you and you’ll hear “crickets”, but because I think you’re a waste of time. I can’t even finish the show because it’s absolutely ridiculous. That’s easy, though, when you’re on a show all by yourself and with no one to offer up another side of the story.”

Notice this guy says it’s a waste of time to come on my show, then he says it’s not that he does not have answers. Then he says, “That’s easy, though, when you’re on a show all by yourself and with no one to offer up another side of the story.” Well, he was invited to come on my show and offer up another side of the story, but he made excuses as to why he won’t do so. I think it’s more a matter of he knows he is wrong and cannot handle the truth.

Now, here is one more quote from this guy, he said, “To be 100% honest, it’s religious freaks like YOU that turn me away from it. That’s no joke. The know-all power hungry retards that swear by a book. Jokes. All jokes. You being the biggest one. haha”

First off, I am not power hungry. I have never once stated I want any sort of power. If anyone thinks I act like that, then it is on them to provide evidence of that. People like this, who claim it’s all a joke and try and blame people like me, will stand before God. They will try to blame me, but God will not say to you, “You’re right, Rick was a liar and mean to you, so I guess I will give you a free pass into heaven since Rick is the reason you rejected me and hated me.” Joey clearly rejected God long before we ever meet, and the Bible says in Romans 5:10, “For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”

We all are/were enemies of God, but through the death of His son we can be reconciled with Him. According to Romans 5:10, Joey was an enemy of God long before we meet, so he cannot use me as an excuse for his rejecting God. The Bible says in Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

Rom 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

All have sinned. This means Joey is accountable and cannot use me as an excuse.

I noticed on another topic talking about Bruce as a transgender, a guy who claimed to have a degree in psychology and is also an atheist, was saying this whole transgender nonsense is a mental illness.

Here is what I think about all of this mental illness nonsense.

I don’t believe in mental illness. It’s sin, plain and simple. This is just one more example of people not wanting to say sin and trying to take away human responsibility. Jesus will never say, you rejected me because you were mentally ill, so I guess you can have a free pass. I hate psychology. The so-called founding fathers of modern psychology, like Sigmund Freud and Karl Jung were child molesting, God-hating, drug users, and did other wicked things. So, why would I look to people like that to tell me how to fix my life? I will stick with Jesus and His Word.

It is because of issues like these that people get mad at me and call me mean or hateful or claim they want nothing to do with God, and it’s because of people like me that they reject God. As I pointed out already, people cannot use others as an excuse for rejecting God. Romans 1:20 says, “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

The Bible states they are without excuse. People complain I am mean and have no grace. Here is the thing. We are talking about Facebook, and the same thing with other websites and blogs. You don’t have time to get to know people and spend lots of time and develop friendships. It’s all about facts. That might seem harsh, but you really only have time to go straight for the point and put out tons of info. I can and am all about getting to know people and encourage people and help lead them to Jesus. But, on social media sites that simply does not work, and the topics can come and go with in minutes.

So, for people that think I am mean, here are some scriptures for you to think about.
Matthew 22:29 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Wow, Jesus tells people they are wrong and dont know scripture and no one cares, I say it and people call me unloving and mean.”

Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?”

Luke 24:25 “Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:”

John 8:44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

John 2:15 “And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;”

These are some things Jesus said and did, and Jesus was not viewed as mean and unloving. Sometimes, people just need to be told straight up what’s going on.

Here are more scriptures.

1 Timothy 5:20 “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.”

2 Timothy 4:2 “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.”

2 Timothy 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;”

2 Timothy 4:4 “And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”

2 Timothy 4:7 “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:”

Titus 1:13 “This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;”

Titus 2:15 “These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”

I do these things and I don’t care if people don’t like it. If they have a problem with how I do things, then they need to take it up with God.

Sadly, since people won’t take a stand on scripture, we have things like this going on.

Jude 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Jude 1:10 “But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.”

Jude 1:12-13 “These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”

Jude 1:17-18 “But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.”

Jude 1:22-23 “And of some have compassion, making a difference:
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.”

Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”

Act 20:29 “For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

2 Peter 2:1 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”

2 Peter 2:12 “But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;”

Act 13:9-11 “Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.”

All these verses I posted are found in the Bible and are all things Jesus and his disciples have said. Why is it when I say things like this, people cry and get mad? Either you’re ignorant and are not aware of these things being said in scripture, or you’re aware of it and are a hypocrite and feel I’m not allowed to use the word of God.

“That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Rom. 10:9

A false teacher on Facebook.

This is what the Bible says about False teachers, false prophets and wolves in sheep’s clothing.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Act’s 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Bible is very clear, we are to be aware of these people and we need to warn others about them.

I Timothy 4:1-2 NKJV
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron

II Timothy 4:2-5 NKJV
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

On Facebook there is a lady who was going by the name Signs Andmiraclesfromgod but she has since changed it to, Signs And miracles from god. She is a false teacher and she teaches things that are clearly in error of the Bible. I was talking with her and sharing the scriptures but she finished by calling me a bigot and unfriended me. I gave her a heads up I was going to write about her and share this info. People need to be informed about the false teachers and wolves in sheep’s clothing. If the world can figure this out by warning people on the news or in posters or signs about pedophile’s and serial killers and other serious issues, why cant we as Christians warn others about false teachers and wolves in sheep’s clothing? So below are a few posts she wrote and then her last post I will add with all the comments written and you can read over everything said, search the scriptures (Acts 17:11) and decided for yourself.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod said:

Today the Catholic Pope praised both the Israeli President and President Abbas of Palestine as men of Peace!
President Abbas honored the Pope with a gift of Holy Rosary Beads and the Pope gave President Abbas an Angel of Peace Medallion.
As I have said many times before, we all love the same God! It is extremism that fails the bridging of God’s people. God, Yaweh, Allah and the Great Spirit are all the same God!
God’s first command is to love no other God except him, his second command is love thy neighbor! Jesus embraced the Samaritan, the Gentile and Saul who later became Paul!
Christian, Jew, Muslim, Native American we are all his creation and we all love God!

Rick says:
Signs is correct when she says, we are all Gods Creation, but she is WRONG when she says we all serve the same God. We read about false gods mentioned in the O.T. No where in the O.T. does God ever say or teach, you can call Him whatever you want, as long as you worship Him. We read in the 10 commandments: Exo 20:Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

God takes His name very seriously, also on my website I am reading through the Quran live on my show, you can go back and listen to past shows that are podcast here, www.fightingfortruth.com The Quran is very clear, Jesus is not God, Muslims deny the trinity, and death to anyone who deny’s the teachings of the Quran. So common sense would say, why would the God of the Bible, who supposedly is the same God of the Quran, both contradict Himself, since the Quran and the Bible dont agree, and why would God of the Bible who teaches Israel is His chosen people and has a special place in History, then turn around in the Quran and teach hate and violence and call for the death of His people if we have the same God? That makes zero sense. Plus if the Bible is true, it says this, Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

God places His word above His name, so if this is true, then why would He contradict His word in the Quran? Then Jesus says,
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So it seems we are not all children of God, but some of us are Children of the Devil.

Signs and Miracles said this:
Signs Andmiraclesfromgod

Let us all pray whether we are Christian, Muslim, Jew or Native American that our God who is the same God holds the people of Nepal in his heart after the 7.9 earthquake today! As of now over 1,800 are confirmed dead. It is believed that number could reach over 10,000 let us pray for all of them in this horrible hour of suffering.

Again, we are not all Believes in the same God. Over in Nepal the vast majority of people are Buddhist, and those Buddhist kill Christians, so if we believe in the same God, why would they kill there brothers and sister claiming they believe in a false God? This clearly shows ignorance on behalf of Signs and Miracles lady.

Here is some of what the Quran says:
The Quran Says that Other Religions are Cursed by Allah

Buddhists in Thailand, Jews in Israel, Christians in Indonesia, Hindus in India… Why is Islam at war with every major world religion, when none of these religions are at war with each other? Part of the reason is that the Quran is specific about the inferiority of other faiths (see 48:28) and the hatred that Allah harbors for their people.

Although it is common for Muslims to become upset about anyone “insulting” their religion, here is what the Quran says about Jews and Christians:

The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.”)

That is not even 1/10th of what the Quran says, so based just upon that, do you really believe the God of the Quran and Islam is the same God Christians believe? I dont.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod said:

I am a international Christian missions Pastor and my belief is that God loves his children and he will take into his fold whatever Samaritan, Gentile, Jew, Muslim or Indigenous person of his choosing as he did with Saul. the Pope wise in his knowledge of this has acknowledged the same.

Rick Said:
Now she claims to be a christian pastor, As far as the Bible goes, she is also wrong on that point also. Here is a link from CARM ministry’s to a very good article on that issue. https://carm.org/should-women-be-pastors-and-elders you can read the article and decide for yourself.

Now here is the last topic that Signs said,
Signs Andmiraclesfromgod said:

There is no room for human bigotry! All four major religions irregardless to translations of terms and words acknowledge God as sovereign and all acknowledge Jesus as sacred. It is not man’s place to judge the Samaritan, The Gentile, the Jew, the Muslim, the Christian or the Indigenous people , it is God’s and only God’s place to judge in the end. For we must all face him solely alone in the end.

Now from here on out is all the replies me and others said in response to signs, it is rather lengthy but you can read them and decide for yourself.

Rick Beaudin: The reason we have many of these various denominations is over minor little Non doctrinal issues, but nowadays many are getting into way more hersey like saying Jesus is not God, or allowing homosexuals to be teachers and leaders.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Rick my words are scripture just as yours just different doctrine

Rick Beaudin: No your are not, yours are a false doctrine and you deny scripture even though you claim not to. Thats why I want to talk with you on my radio show.

Rick Beaudin: You deny original sin when you claim we are all good and god looks at the good we have in us and we can do. So if you feel that way back it up.

Rick Beaudin: also explain why the Bible says we are all sinner and since we are all sinners God needed to die for us since we cannot save ourselves. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: By the way Joshua in respect to Hesus death being insufficient –only a fool would say that. My savior has given so much that words cannot describe. However he also states clearly that men will be judged by their works Romans 2:16

Rick Beaudin: Dont avoid the scriptures I posted, that just proves my point. Well Im at it, you claim were all good to some degree, so when Jesus says none of us are good did He Lie, or are you wrong? Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Jesus – Mark 2:16-17 he comes to help those souls who wish to repent and acknowledges there are people who are righteous

Rick Beaudin: Revelation teaches only those who’s names are in the Book of life will be saved, But our names are not in that book if we dont know Jesus, so then we are left to our works to be judged and our works cannot save us.

Rick Beaudin: Were only righteous in Him, not in ourselves.

Rick Beaudin: you still are refusing to answer my questions about why would Jesus die for us if we are good? and why does the Bible say all have fallen and sinned if we are good?

Rick Beaudin: Again if we are all good to some degree, then explain this verse. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? If were good how can the Bible say this? Mormons deny original and believe a lot of what you teach, you sure your not a mormon? or even former mormon?

Joshua Villoria: In respect to you since you have given me no respect by calling me a fool, I love you, and I would love to chat with you someday and we can go over scripture and compare and search what the bible says. You tell me I was condemning you, yet you condemn me? Not even Jesus condemned. You are in my prayers Signs Andmiraclesfromgod

Rick Beaudin: Signs, I do pray for you to have your eyes opened, But if and until then I am here to fight the false prophets, share the gospel and encourage those that need it.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod:
Joshua I never called you a fool, we just have different views. I believe both and Rick love Jesus Christ and God as I do. I just have experienced God and Jesus different. I know them as loving, forgiving, compassionate, condemning evil but embracing g…See More

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod:
When my ankle broke two + years ago the doctors said it would never walk again and as I sat in my wheelchair my first crucifix miracle cloud appeared. I now walk without surgery and without any major medications. I live right next to where Jonathan Ed…See More

Rick Beaudin:
I’m happy you lived, but that does not mean your saved and the Bible tells us that Satan can come in the form of an angel of light to deceive. Also the Bible tells us wolves are in sheeps clothing, so people think the wolves are really sheep. Satan do…See More

Joshua Villoria:
Signs Andmiraclesfromgod you did call me a fool, but I forgive you for that. Here’s what you said

“By the way Joshua in respect to Hesus death being insufficient –only a fool would say that. My savior has given so much that words cannot describe. H…See More

Rick Beaudin: We as christians are not to chase Signs and wonders, signs and wonder are supposed to come after us. Also these things you mention are not evidence of you being saved, I can give examples of mormons, atheists and muslims claiming various miracles like you. Thats not evidence of salvation.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod:
Rick it is obvious we will not agree, my God is more encompassing than yours. That is all! I respect you and Joshua as followers of Christ and believe someday we may meet in God’s kingdom- but I only say this my God paints the sky, he saves , creates m…See More

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod:
Joshua you said that I said Jesus death was insufficient- I said anyone who says that is a fool- I did not say you are!

Rick I did not tell my God to paint the heavens , nor did I know that Jonathan Edwards had his Great Awakening with clouds. He just…See More

Rick Beaudin:
Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did heaven, and not everyone finds the door to eternal Life, more will go to hell than heaven.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and ma…See More

Rick Beaudin: As far as the Trinity, Jesus did claim to be God, thats why the religious leaders wanted to Kill Him. Jesus said to the leaders that H e was the voice in the burning Bush that spoke to Moses. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Jesus said there that He was God. This shows the trinity you deny.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Rick I do not deny the Trinity- John. 3:16 for GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten SON that all who believerh in him shall not perish.

Rick Beaudin: You said That Jesus is not God.

Rick Beaudin: Jesus is God, Not a god, But God. Jesus is God in the form of flesh

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: He was with his father before birth and returned to him after death and is seated at his right side.

Rick Beaudin: Like I said, Jesus is GOD and He said so, and the religious leaders understood that, thats why they accused Him of blasphemy and wanted Him Dead.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Just doctrine so we can agree to disagree — I’m a mother Rick and I shall look at things always as what I am, the mother God made me into
That is all

Rick Beaudin: when it comes to doctrine, it’s not a matter of lets agree to dis agree. It’s either True or it’s false. As the Bible says, if it is false and it is a lie, it is from the Devil since Jesus said The Devil is the father of all lies, and we are warned by Jesus and the apostles to beware of false teachers. Jesus also tells us we must worship Him in spirit and TRUTH. So truth does matter

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Of course Rick it matters we just interpret John 3:16 different that is called Doctrinal belief and wars have occurred over such matters – I will not war with you over interpretation —

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: The Pharisees were an elect sect that had no jurisdiction outside Jerusalem – Jesus knowingly went into this city knowing what would happen. If he had stayed in Galilee he could not have been crucified. Again doctrine

Rick Beaudin:
I’m not asking you to war over anything. I’m just saying,the Bible tells us to correct and rebuke and exort, and the Bible tells us to test the spirits and beware of false teaching. And you have false teaching, and cannot back up what you say from the …See More

Rick Beaudin: First off, the Pharisees were not of God, they were man made, no mention of them in the O.T. then Jesus came to Die for us, the Bible tells us He was slain before the foundation of the earth, and that the Father crushed the son for His good pleasure. If Jesus did not die, we would all be doomed to eternal damnation.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Do you not think that I could call upon my father in Heaven and he would send a legion of angels to aid me? I am a mother- it is and will always be that all these words verify he is God’s SON- you can choose to believe all these words don’t matter as much as the John 8:58 if you wish- I believe that is an incorrect interpretation – so let’s stop arguing- ok God bless

Rick Beaudin:
If you believe I have a wrong View, then support your view and back it up. But also when I quote scripture saying things like, Jesus was meant to Die, He was crucified before the foundation of the world, and it was the fathers good pleasure to Crush th…See More

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: My interpretation is scripturally based Rick You just don’t like the scripture I give- you think John 3:16 means something different – now please let us stop! My work as an international missions pastor may not agree with your world view but I never asked for your opinion.

Rick Beaudin: See, you just cant do it.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Why do insist on arguing scripture- if you speak of Colossians 1:19 again he did not say he was pleased to crush his SON

Rick Beaudin:
Jesus is the lamb of God.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world….See More

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: While my family’s bloodline is that of Lancelot Andrews coordinator and lead person of the KJV translation the piece in Isaiah you refer to in Aramaic states instead that God chose to humble him and then raise him esteemed for overcoming and submitting to God’s desire to show his grace and omnipotence over death.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: In addition in Aramaic God is translated as Elah quite similar to Allah which is Arabic

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: I am aware of Jesus’ power and glory and I love him devoutly but again squabbles over doctrine have no place here. I do my work for my father in Heaven and his Son and the Holy Ghost as Phoebe did.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: God bless and take care Rick!

Rick Beaudin: Again you ignore the Bible, It’s not a matter of squabbling over doctrine, 3 John 1:3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth 3 John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth..

Rick Beaudin:
Your not walking in truth as the Bible tells us. 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2Jo 1:10 If there come an…See More

Rick Beaudin: Jesus is the passover lamb, it is that way from Gen to Rev.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: Rick arguing with you is like a brick the Aramaic Biblical translation of Isaiah is not what you have in the KJV. Doctrine is all about Bublical arguments over interpretation- you see what you see and go to your church-I read the same Bible as you we just interpret differently. I am a former Congregationalist and a Present day Methodist we do not teach that GOD the FATHER is the same as JESUS the SON

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: This country was founded on religious freedom take your argument elsewhere please

Rick Beaudin: I know you reject the doctrine of Jesus being God,But the scriptures are clear that He is. Your teaching false things and leading people astray, The Bible tells us to contend for the faith and mark people like you, thats what I am doing.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: I am much more inclusive than you. No I do not accept Gay Marriage or abortion across the board, but I do understand that Gay unions are a civil answer with expanded rights and abortion does have occasional to be necessary

Rick Beaudin:
So then you ignore all the verses that say Jesus told people they err in scripture, and how Jesus and the apostles warned people to beware of false prophets and teachers, and Acts 17:11 says to search the scriptures. so you ignore all that and say, Lov…See More

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: But it’s just a battle over how you see the words and what scripture you use versus how I see the Bible and the scripture I investigate more thoroughly that you and others believe. I am a missions pastor Rick- how often do you feed God’s sheep and do you bully them too ?

Rick Beaudin: You just sealed your fate as a false prophet by rejecting scripture in saying the homosexual lifestyle is ok with God in some cases and abortion which is murder is also ok in some cases. The NT clearly gives a list of all who will never enter heaven, in that list is the homosexual and murder.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: I am a Methodist and an international Pastor of missions. I don’t answer to you Rick – grow in your mind we all are not going to see THE ONE And ONLY BIBLE within the same interpretation that is why there are dozens of different denominations

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: I never said homosexuality was ok only that it is

Rick Beaudin: Your a pastor? Scripture rejects that also, and yes while you dont answer to me, God is using me to show people the scriptures and your wrong and will head to eternal damnation if you reject the Bible.

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: As for abortion you are a man sorry but you have no right to tell a rape victim to have the child of their rape

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: You’re a bigot Rick way way too opinionated to be an Disciple of a loving Jesus

Signs Andmiraclesfromgod: I am done now!

Rick beaudin: So abortion is Murder and the Murdering of an unborn baby is ok because of rape? Thats sick and wrong.
I also could say your a bigot, you ignore what I say, and I guess Jesus must be a bigot according to you since He said, He was the Way, The Truth and the Life. He was not open to other ways of salvation.

Rick Beaudin: thats fine I cut and pasted this entire topic and others you have done with false teaching, I will use them to write a post warning people of you and posting it on my website and then on my FB page and news feed. People need to be warned.
Like · Reply · Just now

You’re Invited

I don’t look for trouble, I send out invitations for trouble. So, if you’re reading this letter, you’re invited to bring the trouble.
Are you a God-hating atheist that thinks they can put a Christian in his/her place and set them straight?

Are you a homosexual who claims to be a Christian and believes the Bible really does allow for the homosexual lifestyle? Do you feel Christians who don’t agree are wrong?

Are you a Mormon, or Muslim, or just some person that feels that what you believe about the Bible does not line up with what the Christians believe?

I love debating. I have studied Mormonism for going on 18 years. I have and am reading the Quran and talking about it on my radio show. I was born and raised an atheist and have debated atheists for years. I also know the Bible and all the homosexual arguments against the Bible.

You’re invited to come on my show and talk with me live over the air and defend your beliefs. But, since my show started in May and I keep putting this invite out live over the air, not one person has written me and asked to come on my show and take me on. I say you cannot and will not since many people cannot handle the truth or debate the truth. But if you’re willing, you can write me at: fightingfortruth@hotmail.com

Is the Quran Hate Propaganda?

I want everyone to know, I have been granted permission from the religion of peace website to post this article.
They wrote the entire article and I am only posting it.

TheReligionofPeace.com Presents:

Is the Quran Hate Propaganda?

What the Holiest Book of Islam Really says about Non-Muslims

Introduction
Why the Violence? Why the Indifference?

On September 25, 2002, a group of armed Islamists in Karachi, Pakistan entered the office of a Christian charity, tied seven workers to chairs and then brutally murdered them. According to Muslim witnesses, the Muslims “showed no haste. They took a good 15 minutes in segregating the Christians and making sure that each one of their targets received the most horrific death.”

The killing of non-Muslim humanitarian workers by devout followers of Islam occurs quite often. While there is rarely any celebration on the part of other Muslims, neither is there much outrage expressed by a community renowned for its peevishness.

While rumors of a Quran desecration or a Muhammad cartoon bring out deadly protests, riots, arson and effigy-burnings, the mass murder of non-Muslims generally evokes yawns. In the eleven years following 9/11 nearly 20,000 acts of deadly Islamic terrorism were perpetrated, yet all of them together fail to provoke the sort of outrage on the part of most Muslims that the mere mention of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo inspires.

This critical absence of moral perspective puzzles many Westerners, particularly those trying to reconcile this reality with the politically-correct assumption that Islam is like other religion. The Judeo-Christian tradition preaches universal love and unselfishness, so it is expected that the more devout Muslims would be the most peaceful and least dangerous… provided that Islam is based on the same principles.

But beneath the rosy assurances from Muslim apologists that Islam is about peace and tolerance lies a much darker reality that better explains the violence and deeply-rooted indifference. Quite simply, the Quran teaches supremacy, hatred and hostility.

Consider the elements that define hate speech:

Drawing a distinction between one’s own identity group and those outside it
Moral comparison based on this distinction
Devaluation or dehumanization of other groups and the personal superiority of one’s own
The advocating of different standards of treatment based on identity group membership
A call to violence against members of other groups
Sadly, and despite the best intentions of many decent people who are Muslim, the Quran qualifies as hate speech on each count.

The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6). Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah’s hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture. Naturally, the harsh treatment of non-believers by Muslims is encouraged as well.

So, what does the Quran, believed by Muslims to be the literal and eternal word of Allah, really say about non-Muslims?

The Quran Distinguishes Muslims from Non-Muslims
and Establishes a Hierarchy of Relative Worth

The Quran makes it clear that Islam is not about universal brotherhood, but about the brotherhood of believers:

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood (49:10)

Not all men are equal under Islam. Slaves and the handicapped are not equal to healthy free men, for example (16:75-76). The Quran introduces the “Law of Equality,” which establishes different levels of human value when considering certain matters, such as restitution for murder (2:178).

Neither are Muslim believers equal to non-Muslims:

Are those who know equal to those who know not? (39:09)

Is the blind equal to the one who sees” Or darkness equal to light? (13:16)

A believing slave is superior to a free Mushrik (one who ascribes partners to Allah) (2:221)

The Quran plainly tells Muslims that they are a favored race, while those of other religions are “perverted transgressors”:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110)

As we shall see later, Allah condemns non-Muslims to Hell based merely on their unbelief, while believers are rewarded with the finest earthly comforts in the hereafter, including never-ending food, wine and sex (56:12-40).

Much of the Quran is devoted to distinguishing Muslims from non-Muslims and impugning the latter. Among other things, non-Muslims are said to be diseased (2:10), perverse (2:99), stupid (2:171) and deceitful (3:73).

The first sura of the Quran is a short prayer that is repeated by devout Muslims each day and ends with these words:

Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. (1:6-7)
Muhammad was once asked if this pertained to Jews and Christians. His response was, “Whom else?” (Bukhari 56:662).
Since Allah makes such a strong distinction between Muslims and those outside the faith, it is only natural that Muslims should incorporate disparate standards of treatment into their daily lives. The Quran tells Muslims to be compassionate with one another but ruthless to the infidel:

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves… (48:29)

Islamic law actually forbids formal Muslim charity (in the form of the zakat payment) from being used to meet the needs of non-believers.

Allah intends for Muslims to triumph over unbelievers:

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

The only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

A common criticism of many Muslims is that they often behave arrogantly toward others. Now you know why.

The Quran Dehumanizes Non-Muslims
and Says that They are Vile Animals

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims rank somewhere between “feces” and the “sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food.” Small wonder. The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to “panting dogs” with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. Verse 7:179 says they are like “cattle” only worse.

Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.

A hadith (Bukhari 54:524) says that Muhammad believed rats to be “mutated Jews” (also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than the demons who believe in Muhammad.

According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but – in keeping with Islam’s supremacist message – a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam under enslavement). Even Christians and Jews are not considered fully human in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim.

The Quran Says that Allah does NOT Love Unbelievers

Christianity teaches that God loves all people, but hates sin. The Quran never says this. Instead it explicitly declares that Allah does not love those who do not believe in him:

He does not love the unbelievers (30:45)

Allah only loves those who obey Muhammad (at least according to Muhammad, who provided the “narration”):

Say: “Obey Allah and His Messenger”: But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. (3:32)

Instead of a god that loves the sinner, even while hating the sin, the wrath of Allah is placed squarely on the individual:

Surely Allah does not love any one who is unfaithful, ungrateful. (22:38)

Verses 11:118-199 say that Allah does not bestow mercy on everyone. For this reason, he chooses not to guide some people:

And Allah’s is the direction of the way, and some (roads) go not straight. And had He willed He would have led you all aright. (16:9)

For those whom Allah does not love, there will be the most terrible of eternal torments, including eternal roasting:

Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. (4:56)

“Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers” (2:98) and, as we shall see, he hates them so much that he even leads them into sinning and actively prevents them from believing in him, thus ensuring their fate.

The Quran Says that Non-Muslims are
Destined for Eternal Torture in Hell

Although nowhere does the Quran say that Allah loves those who don’t believe Muhammad, there are over 400 verses that describe the torment that he has prepared for people of other religions (or no religion):

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85)

The relative worth of non-Muslims is that they are but fuel for the fire of Hell:

(As for) those who disbelieve, surely neither their wealth nor their children shall avail them in the least against Allah, and these it is who are the fuel of the fire (3:10 Shakir: “firewood of hell”)

As they are fueling the fire, unbelievers will be tormented by Allah’s angels on his command:

“O ye who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire whereof the fuel is men and stones, over which are set angels strong, severe, who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded.” (66:6)

It doesn’t matter how many good deeds an unbeliever does, because they count for nothing with Allah:

The parable of those who reject their Lord is that their works are as ashes, on which the wind blows furiously on a tempestuous day: No power have they over aught that they have earned (14:18)

Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds? Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works? They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight. That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest. (18:103-106)

Muhammad told his people that anyone who rejects his claim to be a prophet will go to Hell:

Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His messengers and say: ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in others’, and desire to take a course between (this and) that. These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement. And those who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not make a distinction between any of them– Allah will grant them their rewards (4:150-152)

In Christianity, punishment in the hereafter is directly tied to sin and ‘wickedness.’ There is relatively little said about Hell, but the emphasis is on personal suffering for selfish or cruel deeds. In Islam, Hell is a punishment for merely not believing Muhammad’s personal claims about himself. In contrast to the Bible, every 12th verse of the Quran speaks of Hell and vividly describes Allah’s wrath on unbelievers:

But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning. (22:19-22)

No one could torture a person in this way without hating them intensely. Neither can Allah’s intense loathing for unbelievers help but affect the Muslim attitude toward those outside the faith.

The personal superiority of Muslims is confirmed by the contrasting picture painted in so many places in the Quran in which they are rewarded with the greatest of earthly comforts in heaven, while the unbelievers concurrently suffer horrible torment (see Sura 56 for just one example).

Allah Himself Prevents Non-Muslims from Understanding

It would make no sense if Allah gave the people that he hates an opportunity to avoid his wrath. The Quran says that Allah deliberately puts obstacles in the way of unbelievers to keep them from accepting the truth:

If Allah wished, he could provide guidance to every soul:

If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance (32:13)

But, instead he sets a veil over the hearts and coverings over their ears:

Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance. (18:57) – See also 17:46 & 45:23

Allah even uses chains and barriers to prevent unbelievers from believing:

Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe. Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft. And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see. And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe. (36:7-10)

For the same purpose, Allah also fills the hearts of unbelievers with doubt:

No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand (10:100)

Allah Actually Causes Non-Muslims to Sin

Not content with merely preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth (which is enough to condemn them to Hell) the Quran says that a hateful Allah also causes unbelievers to commit the very sin that he will later punish them for:

And if Allah please He would certainly make you a single nation, but He causes to err whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases; and most certainly you will be questioned as to what you did (16:93)

Although Satan tempts Muslims, it is Allah himself who causes unbelievers to err.

…and whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall not find a way for him. (4:143, see also 4:88 and 74:31)

Allah intentionally sends the people that he hates astray:

…and Allah sendeth him astray purposely, and sealeth up his hearing and his heart, and setteth on his sight a covering? Then who will lead him after Allah (hath condemned him)? Will ye not then heed? (45:23)

Allah even sends demons to inspire unbelievers to commit further bad deeds (that he can later hold against them):

See thou not that We have set the Evil Ones on against the unbelievers, to incite them with fury? (19:83)

According to verse 3:54, Allah plots and schemes against unbelievers using deceit (the literal meaning of makara, the word used). Elsewhere, the Quran explains that Allah tricks unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good deeds, when, in fact, they are merely deepening their own eternal punishment with bad deeds:

As to those who do not believe in the hereafter, We have surely made their deeds fair-seeming to them, but they blindly wander on. (27:4) See also 39:23, 6:39, 35:8, 13:27 & 14:4)

Allah recruits Satan to join Him into fooling unbelievers into thinking that they are doing good:

On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them. (6:43)

The joke is on non-Muslims, of course, who will protest on Judgment Day that they did everything they thought was right – but are sent to Hell anyway:

Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), “We did no evil (knowingly).” (The angels will reply), “Nay, but verily Allah knows all that ye did; “So enter the gates of Hell, to dwell therein. (16:28-29)

The Quran Says that Non-Muslims Should Not be Taken as Friends

Given that Allah hates non-Muslims to the extent that he would prevent them from knowing the truth, cause them to err and then condemn them to eternal torture for their unbelief and misdeeds, it would make little sense if he intended Muslims to treat unbelievers by the same standards that they treat each other here on earth.

The Quran says that no true Muslim would ever love anyone who resists Islam, even if it is a family member:

Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. (58:22)

There are at least nine places in the Quran where believers are warned not to befriend non-Muslims:

O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? (4:144)

In fact, anyone who does take a non-Muslim as a friend could be accused of being an unbeliever as well:

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51)

Note that Christians, according to the Quran, are included in the ranks of “unbelievers”:

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary (5:17)
Muhammad said that unbelievers have it out for Muslims. They may appear harmless or friendly, but, in reality, they harbor corruption and evil intentions:

O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse (3:118)

For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies (4:101)

As for them, they are but plotting a scheme (86:15)

Those outside of Islam are really helpers of evil against Allah:

The Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord! (25:55)

The Quran says that “hostility and hate” will exist between Muslims and infidels “for ever” until the latter “believe in Allah alone.” (60:4)

Instead of befriending non-Muslims, the Quran encourages hostility. Muslims are ordered to fight unbelievers:

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. (9:123)

The Quran tells Muslims that they will spend eternity laughing at unbelievers (83:34) and mocking their suffering as they are tortured in Hell:

And the dwellers of the garden will call out to the inmates of the fire: Surely we have found what our Lord promised us to be true; have you too found what your Lord promised to be true? They will say: Yes. Then a crier will cry out among them that the curse of Allah is on the unjust. (7:44) – Muhammad got an early start on this by personally mocking his dead enemies following the Battle of Badr (Ibn Ishaq 454)

One does not befriend those over whose suffering they will later rejoice, nor does it make any sense that Muslims would befriend those whom the Quran labels “enemies of Allah” by virtue of their unbelief.

The Quran Says that Other Religions are Cursed by Allah

Buddhists in Thailand, Jews in Israel, Christians in Indonesia, Hindus in India… Why is Islam at war with every major world religion, when none of these religions are at war with each other? Part of the reason is that the Quran is specific about the inferiority of other faiths (see 48:28) and the hatred that Allah harbors for their people.

Although it is common for Muslims to become upset about anyone “insulting” their religion, here is what the Quran says about Jews and Christians:

The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was “May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.”)

The Quran specifically addresses Christians, Jews, Polytheists (Hindus) and atheists:

Christians are disbelievers (98:5-6) and blasphemers (5:17, 5:73) who have invented a lie about Allah (10:68-69) by ascribing partners to Allah (ie. the Trinity). Inventing a lie about Allah is the worst of sins (7:37, 29:68) and for this reason Christians are condemned to Hell (10:70). Although one (early Medinan) verse seems to say that righteous Christians will go to heaven, this is abrogated by later verses that make it very clear that Christians must cease being Christian (ie. reject the Trinity) or suffer eternal torment for their beliefs (5:72-73).

Jews are also cursed by Allah (5:13), in one of his final pronouncements. The Quran goes on to assure Muslims that Jews are wicked (4:160-162) – so wicked, in fact, that they have somehow managed to do the impossible (18:27) and alter the word of Allah (2:75). Jews are “fond of lies” and “devour the forbidden” (5:42).

The Quran assures believers that Jews and Christians have “diseased hearts” (5:52). Allah even takes credit for the enmity between them (5:14). Only Jews and Christians who submit to Islamic subjugation and pay the Jizya are protected in this world (9:29 & Ibn Ishaq 956).

Hindus are polytheists. Although Muhammad didn’t know any Hindus (and neither did Allah, apparently) the Quran still manages to lay the groundwork for the 1000 year ethnic cleansing campaign against the Hindu people that is estimated to have taken tens of millions of innocent lives. In Islam, polytheists are worse than all other religion. Those who join idols (14:30) or false gods (11:14) to Allah also invent a lie about Him (29:17) and will burn in Hell. Even believing in other divine entities along with Allah is an unforgivable crime (4:48, 40:12).

Atheists believe in no god, which is even worse than believing in the wrong one (Muhammad and his successors had atheists put to death – Bukhari 84:57). Merely questioning the existence of Allah is a testament to one’s impiety (25:21), even as Muslim narcissim is encouraged in the Quran. Muhammad always answered probing questions merely by telling the inquiring party that they would go to Hell if they didn’t believe in him (36:49-64). The Quran discourages Muslims from intellectual inquiry (5:101-102).

Any Muslim who gives up his religion is a “perverted transgressor” (3:82). Perverted as well is anyone who denies Allah (40:63) or does not believe Muhammad (2:99). Freedom of conscience does not exist in Islam. Muhammad clearly prescribed the death penalty for apostates (Bukhari 52:260).

While contemporary Muslim apologists often speak of “dialogue” (meaning a unilateral arrangement in which they tell you about Islam while you listen) the Quran speaks of Jihad instead:

Listen not to the unbelievers, but strive (Jihad) against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)

What would be the point in hearing anything a non-Muslim has to say… or even talking with them for that matter? Allah has already sealed their hearts and condemned them to Hell:

As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom (2:6)

For those wondering why Allah would even make infidels if their ultimate destination is Hell, Muhammad said that the purpose of some (Jews and Christians, at least) was to take the place of Muslims, so that they would not suffer there (Sahih Muslim 6666).

The Quran Says that People of Other Religions
are to be Violently Punished in This World

Allah himself fights against the unbelievers (9:30), so why should Muslims not fight in his cause rather than in the cause of evil (4:76)? About 19% of the Quran is devoted to the violent conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims:

Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know (8:60)

Strive hard (Jihad) against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed. (66:9, See also 9:73)

Muslims are to expect a reward in this life as well as the next (4:134), so it makes sense that unbelievers should be punished in this life as well:

…He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no guide. For them is a penalty in the life of this world, but harder, truly, is the penalty of the Hereafter… (13:33-34)

There are at least two places in the Quran where the violent death of non-Muslims is referred to as Allah’s reward for unbelief (2:191, 9:26), as in “such is the reward for unbelievers.” Verse 3:56, bluntly states that “those who reject faith” will be “punished with terrible agony in this world” (a vow that Muhammad and his companions personally took it upon themselves to fulfill).

The Quran tells Muslims that Allah uses them to violently punish others:

Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace… (9:14)

One of the most violent chapters in the Quran charters Muhammad and his followers with making Islam “superior over all religions” (9:33).

In the end, All beings on heaven and earth will be forced to bow down to Allah, either willingly or by force:

And unto Allah falleth prostrate whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly (13:15)

Muslims are told that Allah “loves those who fight in his way” to make Islam “victorious over all other religions, even though the disbelievers resist” (61:4-11). Those who do resist Islam will be humiliated:

Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be among those most humiliated. (58:20 – The context for this verse is the eviction of the Jewish tribes of Medina and the confiscation of their wealth, land, and children by Muhammad).

Non-Muslims are to be fought until religion is only for Allah:

And fight them until there is no more ftna (unbelief, worshipping others beside Allah), and religion is all for Allah… (8:39 – Some translate the word “fitna” as “persecution”, but in this context it means resistance to Islam – defined in the prior verse as an unwillingness to believe (see verse 38). This passage was “revealed” following a battle that Muhammad deliberately provoked. Verse 2:193 essentially says the same thing and was also “revealed” at a time when the Muslims were not under physical attack).

Those with “diseased hearts” – which include Christians and Jews according to 5:52 – are to be “seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter” (33:60-62) along with “hypocrites” (Muslims who are judged not to be true believers by their associations with unbelievers or their unwillingness to engage in Jihad).

Non-Muslims are to be encroached on, pressured and punished by the Muslims:

See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? (13:41 – See also 21:44)

We shall punish them gradually from directions they perceive not. (68:44)

And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things. (33:27, See also Bukhari 53:392)

Allah will grant Muslims authority and power over all other people:

Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion… (24:55)
(Muhammad’s companions continued to self-fulfill this prophecy with an aggressive and senseless military expansion that left a trail of bodies from Spain to India).

Allah provides instructions to Muslims for dealing with unbelievers who are unwilling to accept Islamic rule:

Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment. (8:12-13)

Defeating non-Muslims should be easy for true believers because they are superior in intelligence and understanding:

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence (8:65)

Other verses of violence may be found here.

Remember that the Quran says that not all men are equal according to Islam. This even applies to Muslims with regard to their aggressiveness toward unbelievers. Those who kill or are killed on behalf of Islam are more pleasing to Allah:

Not equal are those of the believers who sit at home… and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives” (4:95)

Conclusion

The pattern of violence and aggressive disregard for human suffering that is persistent in Muslim history and contemporary attitude toward non-believers reflects the message of the Quran, which is one of personal superiority and arrogance.

In today’s world, Muslim dominance is characterized by the oppression and discrimination of non-Muslims, while Muslim minorities within larger societies are distinguished by varying degrees of petulant demand, discord and armed rebellion. Few Muslims are uncomfortable with this blatant double standard, in which Islam either plays the victim or unapologetically victimizes others, depending on its position of power – and the reason is obvious.

Islam is a supremacist ideology in which the role of non-believers is subordinate to the position of Muslims. Those who resist Islamic rule are to be fought until they are either killed or fully humiliated and forced to acknowledge their inferior status by converting to Islam or by paying a poll-tax and otherwise accepting the subjugation of their own religion.

There is simply no other religion on earth that draws such sharp distinction between its own members and others, or devotes as much time of its holist text toward condemning and dehumanizing those who merely choose not to follow its dogma.

So much about Islamic terrorism and the general indifference of the broader Muslim community toward the violence makes sense only against this dual nature of Islam – as does the strange willingness of Muhammad’s followers to tolerate their own subjugation under Ottoman or Arab tyrants, such as Saddam Hussein, while being violently opposed to a Jewish neighbor state.

The apologists are correct in saying that Islam teaches love and kindness, but they fail to add that this applies only to the treatment of those within the Muslim community. Loyalty to one’s own identity group is valued above all else and empathy for those outside the faith is optional at best – and even explicitly discouraged in places.

If this is a “misunderstanding” of Islam by modern-day “radicals,” then it is an error that the founder of Islam made as well. In Muhammad’s time, non-Muslims were put to death merely for speaking out against the new religion and its self-proclaimed prophet. Likewise, the Jews of Qurayza were summarily rounded-up and executed on Muhammad’s order, even though they had not even fought in battle. Since the life of a non-Muslim is cheap, actual physical harm to a Muslim is not necessary to justify murder according to the example of Muhammad.

The Quran meets every criterion by which we define hate speech. Not only does the message inspire loathing and disregard for others, but the text mandates the superiority of Islam, even if the means of establishment is by violent force.

In his later years, Muhammad directed military campaigns to subjugate other tribes and religions, “inviting” them to Islam at the point of a sword and forcing them to pay tribute regardless. He set in motion the aggressive military campaigns that made war against all five major world religions in just the first few decades following his death.

Islam incorporates the ultimate devaluation of non-Muslims in the most obvious way by teaching that while a Muslim may be punished with death for murdering a fellow Muslim (Bukhari 83:17), no Muslim can be put to death for killing a non-Muslim (Bukhari 83:50, 3:111 – Muhammad: “No Muslim can be killed for killing a kafir.”). The Quran’s “Law of Equality,” which assigns human value and rights based on gender, religion and status, is the polar opposite of equality in the sense intended by Western liberal tradition, which ideally respects no such distinction.

One can always find apologists willing to dismiss the harsh rhetoric of the Quran with creative interpretation, tortuous explanation or outright denial, but their words and deeds almost always belie a concern for Islam’s image that does not extend to Islam’s victims – at least not with the same sense of urgency – thus proving the point.

Of course, there are also exceptional Muslims who do not agree with Islamic supremacy and sincerely champion secularism and respect for all people. Some even find verses or fragments of such to support their independent beliefs. But, for these people, the Quran as a whole will always be a constant challenge, since it explicitly teaches the distinct and inferior status of non-Muslims.

TheReligionofPeace.com Home Page

Mormonism, Are Family’s really forever?

One question that keeps being spread to possible LDS converts is: Will, or can, families be together forever? The answer is No! According to the Bible. Jesus said that there is no marriage in heaven. Matthew 22:29=30 “Jesus answered and said unto them, ‘Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.'”

Now, I want the LDS leaders to be able to speak for themselves, so all the info posted below is taken directly from the LDS website: www.lds.org.
Everything is from the LDS church. and if you read through it, it states who goes to which heaven or who goes to outer darkness. After reading the info, you decide whether or not families really be together forever. It’s not possible. Use this info to arm yourselves the next time you talk with an LDS member and hear them say, “Families are forever.”

LDS TEACHINGS.
Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected. After we are resurrected, we will stand before the Lord to be judged according to our desires and actions. Each of us will accordingly receive an eternal dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory. The Lord taught this principle when He said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

More than any other book, the Doctrine and Covenants helps us understand the nature of life after death. The Savior taught, “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2). The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that “mansions” may be understood to mean “kingdoms”—those kingdoms in which we will dwell in the life after this. He said: “It should be—‘In my Father’s kingdom are many kingdoms,’ in order that ye may be heirs of God and joint-heirs with me. … There are mansions for those who obey a celestial law, and there are other mansions for those who come short of the law, every man in his own order.” 1

As scientific knowledge increases, it will become more evident that there is order in the universe and that all things are governed by harmonious and immutable laws. Perfect order exists in everything in nature from the nucleus of the atom to the immensity of space. This is true in spiritual things as well as temporal; therefore, blessings that are spiritual are also governed by spiritual laws. “There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven … , upon which all blessings are predicated—and when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated” (D&C 130:20–21).

In other words, there is a relationship between obedience and blessings. The Lord has said that we will be blessed and will live in a degree of glory in the next life according to the eternal laws we obey in mortality. “For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory” (D&C 88:22). The same holds true for the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms (see D&C 88:23–24).

As the Prophet Joseph Smith was laboring on what we now call the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, he received a vision later recorded as Doctrine and Covenants section 76. Included in this revelation is a comparison of the three degrees of glory: the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms. Following is a brief description of each.

The Celestial Kingdom
The Lord compared celestial glory to that of the sun, “even the glory of God, the highest of all” (D&C 76:70; see also D&C 76:96). Those who will inherit this kingdom must do the following:

• Receive a testimony of Jesus and believe on His name (see D&C 76:51).
• Be baptized by immersion (see D&C 76:51).
• Receive the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (see D&C 76:52).
• Obey the commandments and be washed and cleansed of all sins (see D&C 76:52).
• Overcome by faith (see D&C 76:53).
• Be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise (see D&C 76:53).
Those who qualify for the celestial kingdom will receive, among other blessings:

• Be of a company of angels, of the general assembly and church of Enoch and of the Firstborn (see D&C 76:54, 67).
• Receive the fulness, glory, and grace of the Father (see D&C 76:55, 56, 94).
• Be priests and kings of the Most High God (see D&C 76:56–59).
• Overcome all things (see D&C 76:60).
• Dwell forever in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62).
• Be with Christ at the time of His Second Coming (see D&C 76:63).
• Come forth in the First Resurrection (see D&C 76:64–65).
• Go up unto Mount Zion and unto the heavenly city of God (see D&C 76:66).
• Minister to terrestrial and telestial beings (see D&C 76:87–88).
• Be able to have offspring, or in other words, gain the right to become eternal parents (see D&C 131:4).
The Lord further revealed the important doctrines of salvation for the dead and salvation of little children in the celestial kingdom:

“All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

“Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; …

“… All children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (D&C 137:7–8, 10). Except for those whose mental abilities prevent them from reaching the age of accountability (see D&C 29:50), the age of accountability is eight (see D&C 68:25).

We do not know much about who will inherit two of the three degrees within the celestial kingdom. However, much has been said about the highest level in the celestial kingdom, or exaltation, because that is where the Father wants all of His children to live (see Moses 1:39). The Doctrine and Covenants teaches that temple marriage is the key to obtaining exaltation:

“In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

“And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

“And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

“He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase” (D&C 131:1–4).

“If a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; … and if [they] abide in my covenant …

“Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting … because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them” (D&C 132:19–20).

The Terrestrial Kingdom
The Lord compared terrestrial glory to that of the moon (see D&C 76:97). It exceeds the telestial in all things (see D&C 76:91). Those who will inherit this kingdom are those who experienced one or more of the following circumstances:

• Died without law (see D&C 76:72).
• Were in spirit prison and received a testimony there but rejected the testimony of Jesus while on the earth (see D&C 76:73–74; see also D&C 138:32).
• Were honorable people who allowed themselves to be blinded by the craftiness of men (see D&C 76:75).
• Were not valiant in their testimonies of Jesus (see D&C 76:79).
Among other blessings and limitations, those who qualify for the terrestrial kingdom will:

• Come forth in the First Resurrection after celestial beings are resurrected. 2
• Receive of God’s glory but not His fulness (see D&C 76:76).
• Enjoy the presence of the Son but not the fulness of the Father (see D&C 76:77).
• Not be able to obtain a crown in the kingdom of God (see D&C 76:79).
• Be ministered to by celestial beings (see D&C 76:87).
The Telestial Kingdom
The Lord compared telestial glory to that of the stars (see D&C 76:81). Those who shall inherit this kingdom are those who:

• Rejected the gospel, the testimony of Jesus, the prophets, and the everlasting covenant (see D&C 76:82, 101).
• Were liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers (see D&C 76:103).
• Loved “and [made] a lie” (D&C 76:103).
Among other blessings and limitations, those who inherit the telestial kingdom will:

• Suffer the wrath of God on earth (see D&C 76:104) and not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, which will take place after the Millennium (see D&C 76:85). 3
• Be denied the Savior’s fulness (see D&C 76:86).
• Be able to receive the Holy Ghost through the ministration of beings in higher glories (see D&C 76:86–88).
• Never be able to come where God and Christ dwell (see D&C 76:112).
I am grateful that the Lord revealed these eternal truths through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Such truths help us have a greater understanding of the plan of salvation and a stronger testimony of Jesus Christ. We are blessed to know what our eternal destiny will be if we will keep the commandments and endure to the end.

Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected. After we are resurrected, we will stand before the Lord to be judged according to our desires and actions. Each of us will accordingly receive an eternal dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory. The Lord taught this principle when He said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2).

Additional Information
There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion, expressed by our obedience to the Lord’s commandments. It will depend on the manner in which we have “received the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101).

Celestial Kingdom

The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose.

The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have “received the testimony of Jesus” and been “made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood” (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50-70; 76:92-96.

In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1-6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph:

“All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; ”Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

“For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts” (D&C 137:7-9).

Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, “I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (D&C 137:10).

From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into “the new and everlasting covenant of marriage” and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1-4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next.

Terrestrial Kingdom

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will “receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun” (D&C 76:77-78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people “who were blinded by the craftiness of men” (D&C 76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were “not valiant in the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73-74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:71-80, 91, 97.

Telestial Kingdom

Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who “received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, D&C 76:106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81-90, 98-106, 109-112.

Perdition

Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called “the sons of perdition” and will have to “abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory” (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of “those who know [God’s] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God’s] power” (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32-49).

See also Atonement of Jesus Christ; Eternal Life; Heaven; Hell; Plan of Salvation

—See True to the Faith (2004), 92-95

Mormonism’s–Bruce R. McConkie’s “Challenge”

I posted this back in Jan of (06) And no one has been able to take it up and give an honest answer. I even posted it on another Blog and the only reply from an LDS person was, I could reply I just do not want to. I told her she was a liar and could not that was why she did not. I showed it to a Mormon Missionary I was sharing with, him and his partner could not answer it, so here it is again for any one who has not seen it. I am posting it again because I was told I would get the answers I am looking for. Rick b

In the Original 1958 Edition to the Book Mormon Doctrine By Bruce R.McConkie He states In the Preface:

This Work on Mormon Doctrine Is unique–the first book of it’s kind ever published.
It is the first major attempt to digest, explain, and analyze all of the important doctrines of the kingdom.
It is the first extensive compendium of the whole gospel–the first attempt to publish an encyclopedic commentary covering the whole field of revealed religion.

True, there are many Bible commentaries, dictionaries, and encyclopedias; but they all abound in apostate, sectarian notions. Also, there are many sound gospel texts on special subjects.

But never before has a comprehensive attempt been made to define and outline, in a brief manner, all of the basic principles of salvation–and to do it from the perspective of all revelation, both ancient and modern.

This work on Mormon Doctrine is designed to help persons seeking salvation to gain that knowledge of God and his laws without which they cannot hope for an inheritance in the celestial city.

Since it is impossible foe a man to be saved in ignorance of God and his laws and since a man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge of Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation, it follows that men are obligated at their peril to learn and apply the true doctrines of the gospel.

this gospel compendium will enable men, more effectively, to “teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom”; to “be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel,in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient” for them “to understand.” (D and C 88:77-7

For the work itself, I assume sole and full responsibility. Observant students, however, will note that the four standard works of the Church are the chief sources of authority quoted and that literally tens of thousands of scriptural quotations and citations are woven into the text material.
Where added explanations and interpretations were deemed essential, they have been taken from such recognized doctrinal authorities as Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Joseph F. Smith, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, and Joseph Fielding Smith.

Two persons have been particularly helpful in the actual preparation of the work: 1. Velma Harvey, my very able and competent secretary, who with unbounded devotion and insight has typed manuscripts, checked references, proofread, and worked out many technical details; and 2. Joseph Fielding Smith , Jr., my brother in law, who both set the type and made many valuable suggestions as to content and construction.

Abundant needed and important counsel has also come from Milton R. Hunter, my colleague on the First Council of the Seventy; Marvin Wallin, of Bookcraft; and Thomas S. Moson, of the deseret News Press. Salt Lake City, Utah June 1, 1958 –Bruce R. McConkie.

Keep in mind Bruce stated He looks to people Like Joseph Smith and Bringham Young as recognized doctrinal authorities. So with that in mind, Is a Challenge as it were, Issued By Bruce R.McConkie.

I have read all 4 standard works. I find nothing at all in the Book of Mormon to prove it is inspired by God as LDS claim. Bruce states we can find hundreds of topics, I would like to issue a Challenge to all my Latter-day saint friends to bring forth just 10 topics of your choice, compare them to the Bible and show me how they are a more accurate display of the Gospel. Please keep in mind, I am following Acts 17:11 and 1st peter 3:15. Then after you read Bruce’s Challenge, I lovingly added a list of things That LDS feel are core doctrine yet cannot be found in the BoM. This matter has everlasting eternal consequences. sincerely Rick b.

In the Book Mormon Doctrine By Bruce R. McConkie, under the title Book of Mormon.
bruce says the Purpose of the book of mormon is this.

1. To bear record of Christ, certifying in plainness and with clarity of his divine sonship and mission, proving irrefutably that he is the Redeemer and Saviour.

2. To teach the doctrines of the gospel in such a pure and perfect way that the plan of salvation will be clearly revealed; and

3. To stand as a witness to all the world that Joseph Smith was the Lord’s anointed through whom the foundation was laid for the great latter-day work of restoration. Almost all of the doctrines of the gospel are taught in the Book of Mormon with much greater clarity and perfection than those same doctrines are revealed in the Bible. Anyone who will place in parallel columns the teachings of these two great books on such subjects as the atonement, plan of salvation, gathering of Israel, baptism, gifts of the spirit, miracles, revelation, faith, Charity, ( or ANY of a HUNDRED OTHER SUBJECTS), will find conclusive proof of the superiority of the Book of Mormon teachings.

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that Elohim (God the Father in Mormonism) was once a mortal man and that he was not always God?
Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that God has a body of flesh and bones?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that God is married in heaven?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that men can become Gods?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that temple participation is necessary to become exalted?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach Jesus and Lucifer are brothers?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach the blood of Christ does not cleanse certain sins?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it say there is more than one God?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it say males must hold either the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthood?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that there are “three degrees of glory”?

Witnessing tips for Mormons.

I wrote a little booklet years ago. I felt the Lord leading me to do it, and I have since passed it out to lots of people. Please feel free to print it up and pass it around as needed. Once all three parts are posted you can simply print them and have a little booklet to use. Rick b


The Lord has called me to witness to Mormons. I have been studying Mormonism for around 16 years. It has been awesome how the Lord has blessed me and the talks I have had with Mormons. I feel like the Lord has spoken to my heart to put together some information for making it easier for the average person to witness to Mormons. Remember, we need to witness to Mormons to fulfill the Great Commission to make disciples of all men.

Over all, I do not claim to know everything. I feel you should spend time seeking the Lord as to how He would have each person speak to a Mormon and how to go about doing it. The purpose of this booklet is simple. I have read many books on how to witness to Mormons or books about Mormonism written by Christians. Many of the books I have read are very good and full of helpful hints. The only problem I see with most of these books is that they quote from books that most Mormons or Christians will never get their hands on, so it makes it harder to witness to Mormons. I felt lead, after much prayer, for more opportunity to help witness to Mormons. That is how this booklet came to be.

These tips will be simple and easier ways to share with Mormons. It will be done with the books most Mormons and Christians can or do have. For the people who have the rare and hard to find books like the Journal of Discourses. I will share things I have encountered so as to help you avoid the same problems I did, therefore, one less barrier to get through.

I will give a list of books that will be quoted from and the abbreviations that will be used thereafter:

Journal of Discourses –J.O.D.

Articles of Faith–A.of F.

Book of Mormon–B.O.M.

King James Version–K.J.V.

Doctrine and Covenants–D and C

Pearl of Great Price–P of GR P

Miracle of Forgiveness–Miracle

Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible–J.S.T.

Now please allow me to explain what is meant by the phrase “some books make it harder to a certain degree to witness”. Mormon prophets of old taught things like the Adam-God doctrine or blood atonement. Bringham Young taught Adam from the Garden of Eden was and is our god. Bringham Young also taught blood atonement. This means the blood of Jesus was not enough to cleanse us of certain sins, so you needed to shed your own blood. It can be proven they did indeed teach these and other bizarre things and make a good case stating why it was not just the Mormon prophet’s mere opinion. The average Christian could not prove these things, and the average Mormon is not aware of these teachings. It is good that people put these things out for us to see and research, but as far as using these books to witness, they do not always help or work for you when you do not have the original sources to quote.

In all fairness, if a person of any given religion, or even a non-believer, came up to a Christian and said, “I heard your church teaches this, that or the other thing“, and you never heard of this before, you would ask for proof. If they either say, “Well, I read it in a book,” or “I heard it on a tape or video,” and the person that supposedly spoke this was opposed to Christianity or was not a believer, you would say that person has no idea what they are talking about, and it will get nowhere for either person involved. If this is the case, then let’s grant the Mormon the same respect as we would want. They also say, “show me these things” or “I never heard of it before.” Most likely, they have never been taught these things, or the church will act like the doctrines were never taught.

The Mormon is taught that all books speaking out against Mormonism are anti-Mormon material and will want nothing to do with them. To help further your talks, unless you have the original books quoted from, like the J.O.D, to show them, it is best not to even mention it. It is a really good idea not to mention the names of so-called anti-Mormons, because if you do, the Mormon will think you are not thinking for yourself. They believe that you are reading anti-Mormon literature, then trying to use it to attack them and their beliefs.

I believe there are main issues in witnessing we need to stay focused on, such as: who is Jesus, the trinity, the nature of God, ect. But there can and will be times where you will have a couple of talks with the same Mormons. I had one Mormon come over 4 different times. Two other times he could not make it, so he sent someone else. Then, there are websites like the “Mormon Answer Man“. I try to go to websites like these and ask questions. You can read over questions already asked. Most likely, the questions like “Who is Jesus?” and “What is the nature of God?” have been asked. If you know the things found in the B.O.M., you can ask questions about things that don’t line up. I like to go to web sites like this as a chance to witness by asking hard questions that will get the Mormon thinking. If they get posted, then other people can think about them. I will point out questions that I ask to make Mormons think later in this booklet.

I know of some ex-Mormons, though not personally, that I have on books or tapes, that feel you can witness to Mormons just using their books. I agree. What most Christians don’t know is that Joseph Smith plagiarized the Bible and took many verses or whole passages from it and put them in the B.O.M. This is one reason why so many nominal believers convert to Mormonism. When they read the B.O.M., they feel they have read this or this sounds familiar. What is good about using the B.O.M. to witness with is that there is so much Christian doctrine in the B.O.M. Even though there is no power, because it is not the true Word of God, you can show them things and point out how it lines up with what we believe and how it goes against what Mormons believe.

I have heard many people (believers), go back and forth on this issue – “Should I read the B.O.M and use it as a tool to witness?” First and foremost, pray and ask God what He would have you do on this issue. My opinion is that you should read it to help in witnessing to Mormons, as long as you have a good handle on God’s true Word first. This is why I believe this: If a person came up to you and said the Bible is a false book, full of error, and I do not believe it is of God, the first question most Christians would ask is “Have you read it?” If the person said, “No,” then you would ask, “How can you say it is wrong and full of error if you never read it?”

If this is the case, then how come we cannot except this answer when a Mormon says this to us? Granted, as a believer we know it to be a false book. Still, we seem to think we can say that to someone, but no one can say it to us. The other reason I believe we should read the B.O.M. is because the Mormons likely will not talk to you if you say you haven’t read it. If you do, however, then you are past this one argument and can talk further with them. Also, if someone says it would be a waste of time to read the B.O.M. because it is a false book, I would like to add that many believers spend much time watching TV sitcoms or movies that are very degrading to women or the faith. It is not my place to judge what you watch, but if you can justify time spent for TV then why not to help better witness to a lost and dying Mormon. Another thing to remember also is that people like Dr. Walter Martin and John Ankerberg were never Mormons, yet in their research they read the B.O.M. and quote from it in their books. You go out and buy their books and read quotes from the B.O.M. and use them in witnessing or even just to better understand the Mormon, so what is the difference if you read it or let someone else read it then tell you what is in it?

Then you could also tell them you prayed about it and the Lord said it is a false book. You can use this to your benefit by saying, “I prayed about it and now can you show me where in the K.J.V. it says to pray about the B.O.M. being true.” When you ask this question, the Mormon will most likely take you to James 1:5 and tell you this is the verse that says pray about the B.O.M. Use this chance to show them what the verse really says. Then, add to it James 3:16 and point out there is wisdom that is earthly, sensual, demonic. You could point out that perhaps Joseph Smith was following this wisdom.

So now you avoided them leaving by just reading the book and then were able to show them some good bible verses. Then say, “Not only does the Bible not teach to pray about any book, but Acts 17:11 says to search the scriptures.” Then, for the best part, point out how the B.O.M. also teaches that we need to search the scriptures. You can quote to the Mormon: Alma 14:1, Alma 17:2, and Alma 33:2. To make it even more fun, add D and C 1:14 “and the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people”.

I love that verse because you can point out that the Mormon apostles and the Lord himself said SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES! If you choose not to do that, then you will be cut off. Add one more for even more fun- D and C 131:6 says, “for it is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance”. Point out if you don’t search the scriptures and don’t know what they teach, then you are ignorant and cannot be saved. This can open a door to serious bible study. The only problem is that most Mormon Missionaries really don’t have much time. If you are blessed, the 2-3 hours you spend with them might be the only chance you will have.

Most people don’t know this, but if you challenge a Mormon and he goes back to his stake president, they will move him on to a new area. People get mad and think the Mormon is blowing them off when this is not the case. But if you choose to use these verses from the B.O.M., then I suggest you read the book. If you do not read it, but you quote from it, then the Mormon asks if have you ever read the B.O.M. and you say no, then they might not want to talk because they will say or think you read anti-Mormon books and just take verses out of context and twist scripture. So let’s be fair here also. If someone comes to us and they have the Bible and quote a verse from it, but admit they never read the whole book, we will say to them, “You are just misquoting scripture.”

When I pointed out that there are passages of the Bible in the B.O.M., there is no point in trying to prove plagiarism. They could say that there are verses that are the same in other books of the Bible so it does not prove anything. They might also say that the prophets are quoting from that book and point out that Jesus quoted from other books. To go along with the Mormon praying about the B.O.M., he/she might say the B.O.M. is just another testament of Jesus Christ. Point out that the Bible is really 66 books by 40 different authors not just one book as some people think, or two books if they feel the Old and New Testament are two books. So we don’t need another testament as Mormons teach.

I suggest buying 2 books: Mormon doctrine by Bruce r. McConkie and the Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer Kimball. Mormon Doctrine is 856 pages from A to Z of many things that Mormons believe, similar to an encyclopedia. Mormons will not give a full meaning of terms even if you ask. Let’s say you asked a Mormon who Jesus is, they would say He is the Son of God, yet they believe He is the spirit-brother to Lucifer. Unless you know this and say that you know the Mormon church says this is who Jesus is, they will not openly admit it.

By their lack of defining terms, they sound very Christian. Let’s look at it like this:

Christian: You are a sinner in need of a Savior. That Savior is Jesus Christ and He died for you so you could be saved.

Mormon: Yes, I agree 100 percent.

Christian: Who is Jesus?

Mormon: He is the only begotten of the Father, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life and died for my sins.

You can get them by asking if they believe in the trinity. They do deny the trinity, so that is a starting point where you do not need to have terms defined. For the most part, the Mormon will not tell you that he believes, or the church teaches, that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers, Mary and God the Father had a sexual union to conceive Jesus, and she is not really a virgin. In fact, most Mormons are not aware of this teaching. But here are some sources that both Mormons and Christians have or can get access to. Page 466-467 of A.of F. says, “Jesus Christ is the son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, elohim is literally the father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed his mission in the flesh.” This is the 1982 missionary edition.

Then, read pg. 546-547 in Mormon Doctrine under ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. “Christ was begotten by an immortal father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers”. As every parent knows, the only way you can have kids is through a sexual union. Now, take the Mormon to pg. 743 in Mormon Doctrine. Point out to them that this is the same book and same author and show them “SON OF MARY”. It says, and I quote, “Mary was the mother of the Son of God after the manner of the flesh…. She was carried away in the spirit was overshadowed and conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost.” Ask them which it is. Did the Father sleep with Mary or did the Holy Ghost overshadow her?

A few things can happen here. The author of the A.of F. is James Talmage, a very highly respected scholar of Mormonism. You can point out how he and Bruce agree in one area, yet in another they disagree or contradict each other. Also, if God the Father did sleep with Mary and He was not married to her, then that is a sin. Yet, if he was married to her and she was married to Joseph, then that makes them polygamists. Mormons feel this is a sin. The B.O.M. also teaches this is an abomination in God’s sight, so we have a problem. Show the Mormon Jacob 2:22-35. For our purposes, I will just quote verse 24: “behold David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was ABOMINABLE before me, saith the Lord.” Then remind them again about D and C 1:14.

You can now take them to the Bible and point out John 8:41 the Pharisees accused Jesus of being born through fornication. This would be true if God the Father really did have sex with Mary and take it from here. Now point out to the Mormon the book Miracle of Forgiveness. A lot of good things can go on from here. Let me first point out that the Mormon has no true assurance of salvation and the Mormon believes in grace plus works after all we can do. In D and C 82:7 it says, “and now verily I say unto you, I the Lord will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.”

But point out Jeremiah 31:34c, “I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” So what is the deal? God says in the B.O.M. your sin will return, but in the bible He says I will remember them no more. Ask the Mormon, “Do you want the Lord to remember your sin or forget your sin? Let me add also in case it comes up, a lot of Mormons today do not agree with or like Bruce McConkie. They might give you a list of reasons why they don’t trust him or like him. If they do this, then point out that in Bruce’s day he was a very well respected APOSTLE. Point out that most likely the Mormon you are speaking with is not on the same level as an APOSTLE or have not written books like him. Point out also in D and C 1:14 it says to listen to the APOSTLES or they will be cut off for not doing so.

Now Spencer Kimball adds to this on pg. 170 of Miracle of Forgiveness, he says and I quote, “to return to sin is most destructive to the morale of the individual and gives Satan another hand hold on his victim. Those who feel that they can sin and be forgiven and then return to sin and be forgiven again and again must straighten out their thinking. Each previously forgiven sin is added to the new one and the whole gets to be a heavy load”. Simply put, if you get angry and that is a sin, then you ask for forgiveness. Then, later you get angry again, then the former sin of being angry is put upon you. This will go on forever.

This logic is very sad because the Mormon is under heavy bondage and are never truly forgiven. I would point out, “How can this book be called MIRACLE OF FORGIVENESS?” Truly it is a miracle if you are forgiven, and it appears you can never be forgiven. Use this chance to study the Bible with the Mormon and show them scriptures such as 1st John 1:9; then show them Titus 1:2 and tell them that it teaches God cannot lie; then point out Hebrews 6:18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie. Now point out to them Matthew 18:21-35 about how to forgive. If this is God telling us how to forgive one another, how much more will and does He forgive us? Point out 2 Corinthians 6:2 where God is speaking and He says, “now is the day of salvation.” Point out to the Mormon that if today is our day of salvation as God states, then we can know with total assurance we are and have been forgiven.

Now back to Miracle – one thing you can point out, depending on how your talks go, is as follows: Spencer Kimball considers transgression a sin, if this is true then we have a problem. Mormons feel that the fall of Adam was a good thing and was ordained by God to happen. Yet in Miracle, Spencer Kimball states that transgression is a sin. In the B.O.M., in 2 Nephi 2:19-25, it states that Adam transgressed (verse 22). And in verse 25 it says that “Adam fell that men might be and men are that they might have joy.” Why would God say sin is good? It would appear as if God deceived Adam by telling him not to eat of the tree or he would die. Yet God wants them to eat or they could not truly be set free! Is this how God works?

I feel this is probably the best one to show a Mormon and could really get them thinking. It concerns Joseph Smith murdering 2 people.

Pg. 127 in Miracle says, “The murderer denies himself salvation in the celestial kingdom, and in this sense he cannot be forgiven for his crime”. On pg. 128, the prophet Joseph Smith teaches “a murderer, for instance, one that sheds innocent blood, cannot have forgiveness”. On pg. 131, Spencer goes on to teach “This is the case with murderers. They could not be baptized for the remission of sins, for they had shed innocent blood.” He goes on to say “TO THE CHURCH MEMBERS THE WORD IS CLEAR“, then he quotes from D and C 42:18, which says, “And now, behold I speak unto the church. Thou shalt not kill; and he that kills shall not have forgiveness in this world, nor in the world to come”.

Then he quotes from D and C 42:79, saying, “And it shall come to pass, that if any persons among you shall kill they shall be delivered up and dealt with according to the laws of the land; for remember that he hath no forgiveness; and it shall be proved according to the laws of the land.” Here is the best part show the Mormon – D and C 135:4 says, “WHEN JOSEPH WENT TO CARTHAGE TO DELIVER HIMSELF UP TO THE PRETENDED REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW, TWO OR THREE DAYS PREVIOUS TO HIS ASSASSINATION, HE SAID I AM GOING LIKE A LAMB TO THE SLAUGHTER; BUT I AM CALM AS A SUMMERS MORNING; I HAVE A CONSCIENCE VOID OF OFFENCE TOWARDS GOD AND TOWARDS ALL MEN. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD”.

Notice that Joseph believes he is like Jesus being led to the cross. Now bring the Mormon to D and C 135:7. Here it says Joseph was innocent of any crime and his innocent blood was shed. Bring them to D and C 135:1 where it says “To seal the testimony of this book and the book of Mormon, we announce the martyrdom of Joseph Smith the prophet.” Then down farther in verse 1 it says Joseph Smith tried to jump out of the window in the jail. Point out to the Mormon that if Joseph Smith was truly a martyr as Jesus was, he would not have tried to escape. But now for the best part.

Read History of the Church, Volume 7, pg. 102-103. My copy is the 1978 edition. I am sure anybody can still buy History of the Church to show them this passage. I quote from History: “I shall never forget the deep feeling of sympathy and regard manifested in the countance of brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and leaning over him exclaimed OH! My poor dear brother Hyrum! He however instantly arose, and with a firm, quick step and a determined expression of countenance approached the door, and pulling the six shooter left by brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died. I had in my hands a large strong hickory stick, brought there by brother Markham, and left by him, which I had seized as soon as I saw the mob approach; and while brother Joseph was firing the pistol, I stood close behind him.”

Would a true martyr fight back? No, this does not line up with Joseph saying he is without offence towards God when he killed two people. It also shows he was not lead to the slaughter. It shows a bit of a surprise by his actions proving he did not know it was coming, and Joseph was surprised his brother was killed. If they truly new they were going to be martyred, why was Joseph surprised by the death of his brother?

Some Mormons might say, “Well, he was only defending himself, if so, point out Jesus could have called legions of angels, yet he did not. Jesus never said anything to the people, where Joseph tried to kill and did kill two. If he was a true prophet called by God, then we have a problem. Joseph and Spencer Kimball taught no forgiveness for the murderer. You can really open a talk here.


Now the Mormon most likely will respond as if you are just attacking their church. I suggest responding along these lines. In the P of GR P., under Joseph Smith 2:18-19, it says, “18:My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right and which I should join.19: I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that ALL THEIR CREEDS WERE AN ABOMINATION IN HIS SIGHT; THAT THOSE PROFESSORS WERE ALL CORRUPT; THAT THEY DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME, THEY TEACH FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN, HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT THEY DENY THE POWER THEREOF.”

In verse 17 it is God the Father and the Son speaking about the state of the Christian Church to Joseph Smith. We are not attacking, we are just responding to Joseph Smith’s statement about our church. Also, read to the Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10: “And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to the great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth”.

The LDS church teaches that if we do not belong to the Latter Day Saint’s church, then we belong to the church of the devil and are the whore of all the earth. This is a strong statement from a group of people saying they never attack any other beliefs and they are upset we are defending ourselves. Read also “Church of the Devil”, pg. 137; Christendom and Christian Era, pg. 131; and Christians and Christianity, pg. 132, all in Mormon Doctrine. Then read under “First Vision”, page 285-286 in Mormon doctrine. These all give really good descriptions of how Christians are viewed by the Mormon church. If they accuse us of attacking the Mormon Church, they better read up in their own books.

Joseph Smith said the B.O.M. is “the keystone to our religion” H.C. 4:46. He also said, “Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion?” on pg. 71 in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. So if we show their foundation is built on sand and their belief is unstable, then we can proceed to show them the rock upon which the true church is built and the corner stone is Jesus Christ.

The Mormons believe in grace plus works. An example you can use is: If you were on a beach that had a lifeguard and you were swimming then started to drown, a lifeguard would not just run out and try to save you. Otherwise, in your panic you could kill both the lifeguard and yourself. He will wait until you tire out and start to go down. We cannot kill or pull down Jesus who is our lifeguard, but we could say our screaming and thrashing is our works. They really cannot do anything to save us, they will just tire us out, and we will drown and die. If we call out for the lifeguard “Jesus” to save us, he will, but not while we try to do it ourselves. You can give other ideas and do a bible study and teach the Mormon about grace plus works. This was just one example I like to use.

Something the Mormon might say is that you are only pointing out the apparent bad things in our church and you never point out the good things. If this happens then politely point out that you agree with the Mormon Church on the issues like, marriage is good, homosexuality is a sin, theft is a sin, murder is a sin, ect. Point out a few things you know you agree on and say something like, “See, we agree on some things.” But then point out these good things cannot save you. What happens if you believe many good things yet are wrong on who Jesus is? You may also go from here to wherever you left off.

A question I am asked a lot is, do the Mormons use a normal bible like believers or do they have there own bible like the JW’S? The answer is yes and no. Yes, because they use the K.J.V and it is the same as we use. The only difference would be is that they have Mormon footnotes that we don’t believe in. The no part is that they do have what is called the Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible. Here is another good chance to open a talk. This subject is one I use with people like the “Mormon Answer Man.“ D and C 74:3-4 says, “3.Now, verily I say unto you my servants, Joseph Smith Jun, and Sidney Rigdon, saith the Lord, it is expedient to translate again; 4.And, inasmuch as it is practicable, to preach in the regions round about until conference; and after that it is expedient to continue the work of Translation until it be finished.”

Notice that the Lord told them to do this work and to finish the work. Now add 1 Nephi 3:7 to this. “And it came to pass that I Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.“ When I talk to Mormons I will say, “You know how people have a favorite Bible verse? Well, I have a favorite verse in the B.O.M. and this is it.” You can use this verse when talking about how the Mormons need to be perfect and keep the whole law. Point out how this verse says that God will make it possible for them to be perfect and ask why they can’t seem to follow this logic.

Anyway, back to the J.S.T of the Bible. You might be able to back order a copy of the 1993-1994 Church Almanac from the local Mormon bookstore. On page 339, under 1833, July 2, it says, “The prophet Joseph Smith finished the Translation of the Bible.” In the 2003 Almanac on page 536, under 1883, July 2, it says, “The prophet Joseph Smith finished the Translation of the New Testament.” I believe that whatever year we happen to be in, you could buy an updated Almanac and find the year 1883, look under July 2, and it will say this. If it only says he finished the New Testament, try and get the 93-94 edition that says he finished the whole Bible. The reason why is that in the J.S.T. of the Bible, it says on page 10: “COMPLETION” POSSIBLY NOT FINAL. Then, on page 11 it says Mormon authors Sperry and Van Wagoner have pointed out that the Psalms are evidence of the incompleteness of the translation.

On page 258 of the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1989 version, he says and I quote, “My feelings at the present time are that, inasmuch as the Lord Almighty has preserved me until today, He will continue to preserve me, by the united faith and prayers of the saints, until I have fully accomplished my mission in this life.” It appears that Joseph Smith was wrong, and he did not fully accomplish his mission. Part of his mission given by God in D and C was to finish the J.S.T. and it said right in there he did not finish the work. Point out that either Joseph Smith was a false prophet or God is a liar/failure for not keeping Joseph Smith alive to finish his job given by God Himself.

In the J.S.T. of the Bible, the first 24 pages talk about all this plus lots of other fun stuff to point out. I suggest buying a copy to use with the Mormon. Point out that in the D and C and the Church Almanac, Joseph Smith was told by God to finish it; in the B.O.M. says that God will grant you the ability to finish what he told you to do. But in the J.S.T., it teaches that it is not finished. So what is the deal – is it, or is it not? Also, they sell the J.S.T. in the local Mormon bookstore and the Mormon will admit that parts of the J.S.T. are found in the footnotes of the B.O.M. and D and C. Plus, a good portion of the P of GR P is the same as the J.S.T., yet they don’t carry it, pass it out, or use it.

The Mormon will say that the Reorganized Latter Day Saints own the rights to the J.S.T. and therefore, it is not trustworthy. I point out that it is kind of funny how they don’t trust the Bible because the Church fell into total apostasy, yet the Lord tells Joseph Smith to fix the Bible and then the Lord allows it to be re-corrupted by falling to the Reorganized Church? That makes zero sense. Also, why does the local Mormon bookstore sell it if you don’t use it? Something you can point out to the Mormon is that they don’t use the J.S.T because they feel it has been corrupted by the RLDS, yet it can be found within the footnotes of their books. Please tell me who decides which verses were good to use and which verses were corrupted? Therefore, you cannot use the rest.

Most of the time, it will get the Mormon thinking without a response, but you also will get a stupid response here and there. There are 13 Articles of Faith, and number 8 says, “We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God.” Personally, I like to use the J.S.T. on the Mormon. What I tend to do is prepare ahead verses I know I will use with the Mormon and check them in the J.S.T. If they are not found in the J.S.T. that means Joseph Smith did not mess with them. Then, I bring up a verse to the Mormon in the K.J.V. I remind him that if he uses the J.S.T. in his footnotes and God told Joseph Smith to finish the book and your church claims he did finish it, then, due to the fact that Joseph Smith did not change it, there is an implication that God was fine with the way it was. Therefore, we now can go on to what the verse means. For example, the Mormons believe in grace plus works. In Romans 3:28 it says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (K.J.V.) Now in Romans 3:28 of the J.S.T. it says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith alone without the deeds of the law.”

Here is a mistake that no one caught, but can work to your benefit. I call it a mistake because the Mormon believes in grace plus works, but also down in verse 16 in the J.S.T it teaches grace plus works. The J.S.T. contradicts itself in this area, so point out how the Mormon Church teaches works, yet according to God, works is wrong. Another one would be in Isaiah where there are lots of verses that teach God knows of no other Gods besides Him. In the J.S.T., these verses were never messed with, so you can point out that they were never touched, therefore they must mean what they say.

The Mormon Church teaches what is called the pre-existence. They believe we were spirits born in heaven and then when we were born into earth here, we were born forgetting the pre-existence. It is more in-depth than this, but this is just a simple form of it. The thing I like to point out to the Mormon is in Job where God says to Job, “Where were you when I created the heavens and earth and did all that was done?” Tell the Mormon Titus and Hebrews point out that God cannot lie. If we were really with God before being sent to earth, why did God not just say to Job, “Don’t you remember when I did all this since you were with me?”

For God to say, “Where were you?” implies we were not there, otherwise God lied which it is impossible for Him to do. The Mormon will usually say that the Bible says, “I knew you before you were formed.” You can respond however you want, but I respond by saying that it is like a carpenter who puts plans on paper to build a house. He knows what the house looks like, even though plans are on paper and it is not built.

Another question I like to ask the Mormon is: “If the gospel means good news and you say you believe the good news, then what exactly is the good news of your belief?” They have always told me that it is the fact that the Mormon Church has “Living Prophets” and new “ongoing” revelations. It could change depending on the Mormon, but that is generally what I am told. I will then point out that if they have no hope of salvation and they have hundreds of laws to keep how is this good. To help you out with this logic, you can go to this website: (www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/followingthebrethren.htm. If an error occurs here, go to www.utlm.org. This is the Tanners web site. You should be able to find the Fourteen Fundamentals in following the Prophet. They were given at Brigham Young University and by the former Mormon Prophet/President Ezra Taft Benson. I don’t think any Mormon would argue with you if you show them these. All 14 give scripture – both ours (“The Bible”) and theirs – to back these statements up.

I won’t list all 14, but I will list the ones I like the best and use most often with the list of questions I ask. These are directly quoted:

FIRST: The Prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

SECOND: The living Prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

THIRD: The living Prophet is more important to us than a dead Prophet.

FOURTH: The Prophet will never lead the Church astray.

SIXTH: The Prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the lord”, to give us scripture.

ELEVENTH: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the Prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

FOURTEENTH: The Prophet and the presidency–the living Prophet and the first presidency–follow them and be blessed–reject them and suffer.

You can use these anyway you want or how you feel the Lord is leading you. Here are some ways I use these sayings from the prophet. Remember, I pointed out how the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the B.O.M. is the keystone to their religion in H.C. 4:46. In the book Teachings, on page 71 Joseph Smith said, “Take away the book of Mormon and the revelations and where is our religion.” Then, according to number 2, you could just throw away the B.O.M. and listen to the Prophet. Then if the Mormon says, “Well that is nonsense add number 3 and say Joseph Smith might have been a Prophet but he is now dead and the living Prophet supersedes the dead one. Then add number 4 to it also and say remember the Prophet will not lead the Church astray.

Now another one I like to ask Mormons and even people like the “Mormon answer man” is found in the J.S.T. on page 10 under the heading “Completion” possibly not final. It goes on to say “The angel who visited Joseph Smith on the night of September 21, 1823, quoted the Prophet Malachi as follows”

“For behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble, for they that cometh shall burn them saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch…

Behold, I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord…

And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers; if it were not so the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.”

It goes on to say “This differs at important points from the King James Version of Malachi, but the Inspired Version is identical with the King James Version.” The above verse is from chapter 4 in Malachi. Now some of the problems we have is this. In both versions it says “Thus saith the Lord” implying God said so, so did God forget what he said, otherwise the angel misquoted what the Lord spoke but then that also is problem. The next option is Joseph wrote it down wrong but then that would mean 2 things, 1. He was not a true Prophet of God and 2, he failed in his mission according to both D and C 1:14 and D and C 74 and according to former president Ezra Taft Benson who gave the 14 fundamentals of following the brethren. I have shown this to many Mormons as of yet nobody can seem to give me an answer, they all just say I don’t know what to tell you. The other thing about all this also is Joseph Smith did not included the book of Malachi in the J.S.T. which would imply to me, that nothing was wrong with that book, Therefore how could it be misquoted? I say nothing was wrong with it because the reason it was “Fixed” the bible that is, by Joseph Smith was God told him the Bible had errors in it (A of F number 8). And only this misquoted verse appears in the book so it really makes no sense?

Now lets look at a couple of the really stupid stories in the B.O.M. I would not say to a Mormon these stories are really stupid, I would say how could the B.O.M. be truly inspired with stories like these in it. I might only point out these stories as the Mormon is getting ready to leave, just say here is one last thing to think about when you read your B.O.M. and come across these stories.

This is one story I just recently came across as I read through the B.O.M. Read Alma chapter 55 and I will just point out a few things in this story. First in the Word of Wisdom found in D and C chapter 89 it teaches a Mormon is not allowed to drink alcohol. Now you might think this is not a major doctrine so why bother, here is why. I have pointed out to the Mormon Jesus drank wine and turned water to wine before, and they just responded that it was non-alcoholic wine, in other words just grape juice. So I would point out how Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and you cannot get drunk off of non-alcoholic wine.

Now here is where it relates to the story in Alma 55. In Hebrews 13:8 it says 8:Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. In Moroni 10:19 it also teaches that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. But in Alma 55 we find that they were drinking wine to the point they got drunk, And this wine came from the Mormon prophet Moroni. Why can he drink wine but nobody else, This just tells me (my) God is a changing God.

Now more on this story is this. The Lamanites and Nephites were fighting each other and so the Nephites did not want to shed blood so they sent a few of there people over to the Lamanites camp pretending to be Lamanites and brought there wine and got them all drunk and when everybody was good and drunk they took them with out force.

Now to go along with a God who never changes lets add this. Black people today at one time were considered cursed by God and could never hold the priesthood. But later there was a revelation given by God that stated the blacks could hold the priesthood. This revelation was given in Salt Lake City in 1978,now this poses a problem? The problem is the black people are still black, and this implies they still have the mark of the curse. Yet we read in 3 Nephi 2:15 (And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites). Why would God lift the cursed skin from these people back then but not today? Since 1978 till today is about 25 years. The Scriptures teach nothing is impossible for God, but appears it is, and as I pointed out the God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That would appear to be false also. Now for another good story. Read Ether 2:16-25

This story really makes God look stupid. In short the brother of Jared was told by God himself to build a barge, and it was built so airtight that the brother of Jared went back to God and said we have no light in side to see by and no air to breath. So then God tells him to drill a hole in the top and the bottom of the barge, then to put plugs in the hole to keep water from coming in. And God even states if you pull a plug and water comes in put the plug back in and pull the other plug instead, this implies water will come in.

I talked to a Mormon about this story once and pointed out how, if water comes in then it will displace air, therefore you will have less air to breath and eventually you will keep filling up with water to the point where it will sink or you will drown. Plus all the things in the ship will get destroyed by water. I pointed out how if you pull what you think is the plug up top implying you are upright and you pull it and water comes in then it means one of two things, you are either under water and therefore you would sink or you were turned upside down. And if you keep getting thrown about to the point where you cannot tell which way is up then you can or will be seriously hurt.

The response I received from the Mormon is (Rick) you just don’t understand fully what you just read. I really believe this is a good story to show how the B.O.M. cannot be inspired by God it really makes him look stupid. Ok now lets move on to things found in the B.O.M.

We will look at a few things you can point out and say did this really happen or how can this book be truly inspired with things like this in it. Just in about half of the book of Mormon I put together a list of around 110 things either really stupid or that are Christian theology taken from the bible that Mormon’s deny like the trinity, or saved by grace alone. I will not list everything so it would be best if you go through and read it and put together your own list. A lot of what is listed is only parts of a verse to say on space and time, please read for context before pointing this stuff out to the Mormon. Nothing is twisted or taken out of context, I just do not want to make an entire book here so it is easier to just list the part I want to focus on.

1 Nephi 1:2: The Jews use the language of the Egyptians.

1 Nephi 1:8: And being thus overcome with the Spirit, he was carried away in a vision, even that he saw the heavens open, and he THOUGHT HE SAW GOD sitting upon his throne.

How can you say I thought I saw god? You either did or did not.

1 Nephi 16:18: And it came to pass that as I Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine steel.

How can you break a bow made of fine steel? You could take cheap steel and beat it over a rock or on something very hard and try as you might you will have a really hard time trying to break it. Also if you have a bow you will do all you can not to use it in such a way as to possibly break it in such a careless manor.

Enos 20: They ate raw meat.

Every body knows Gold, Diamonds and Pearls are rare therefore most precious but have you ever heard of ZIFF as a precious metal.

Mosiah 11:8: Ziff (a precious thing) king Noah used. To this day it has never been heard of or found. It must be really precious and rare to still be undiscovered.

Alma 10:4-9: First the guy (Amulek) in this story says in verses 5:Never the less after all this I never have known much of the ways of the Lord, and his mysteries and marvelous power. I say I never had known much of these things; but behold; I mistake, for I have seen much of his mysteries and his marvelous power.

So which is it? Then it goes on to say that Amulek admits he openly rebelled against God and is living in rebellion to Him. Then God sends and Angel to him telling him I will use you this day to feed a Prophet of God. That would be like God speaking to Charles Mansion and saying I will use you this day to feed Billy Graham.

Now in Alma 10:17: This same Amulek who just admitted he was rebelling against God, so we know it is not an Angel in the form of a man or God himself in the form of a man goes on in verse 17 to say he (Amulek) perceived their thoughts. How can a mortal man know your thoughts or read your mind so to speak. Only God can do this. It is not stated that God gave him the power to do so. In case a Mormon says this is the reason it happened.

Alma 13:18: Claims Melchizedek had a Father, this denies the Bible.

Alma 19:29: Jesus is mentioned but the date is B.C. 90. The reason why this is mentioned is because Jesus took the queen by the hand and lifted her up. But there are many verses that talk about the “Coming” in the future time of Jesus. So is he coming or is he here already?

Alma 21:6: We do believe God will save ALL men. Well they believe wrong because we know not all men will be saved. The B.O.M. even teaches some will go to hell?

Alma 24:19: And thus we see that they buried their weapons of peace, or they buried the weapons of war, for peace. Which is it?


Now the Mormon most likely will respond as if you are just attacking their church. I suggest responding along these lines. In the P of GR P., under Joseph Smith 2:18-19, it says, “18:My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right and which I should join.19: I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that ALL THEIR CREEDS WERE AN ABOMINATION IN HIS SIGHT; THAT THOSE PROFESSORS WERE ALL CORRUPT; THAT THEY DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME, THEY TEACH FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN, HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT THEY DENY THE POWER THEREOF.”

In verse 17 it is God the Father and the Son speaking about the state of the Christian Church to Joseph Smith. We are not attacking, we are just responding to Joseph Smith’s statement about our church. Also, read to the Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10: “And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to the great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth”.

The LDS church teaches that if we do not belong to the Latter Day Saint’s church, then we belong to the church of the devil and are the whore of all the earth. This is a strong statement from a group of people saying they never attack any other beliefs and they are upset we are defending ourselves. Read also “Church of the Devil”, pg. 137; Christendom and Christian Era, pg. 131; and Christians and Christianity, pg. 132, all in Mormon Doctrine. Then read under “First Vision”, page 285-286 in Mormon doctrine. These all give really good descriptions of how Christians are viewed by the Mormon church. If they accuse us of attacking the Mormon Church, they better read up in their own books.

Joseph Smith said the B.O.M. is “the keystone to our religion” H.C. 4:46. He also said, “Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion?” on pg. 71 in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. So if we show their foundation is built on sand and their belief is unstable, then we can proceed to show them the rock upon which the true church is built and the corner stone is Jesus Christ.

The Mormons believe in grace plus works. An example you can use is: If you were on a beach that had a lifeguard and you were swimming then started to drown, a lifeguard would not just run out and try to save you. Otherwise, in your panic you could kill both the lifeguard and yourself. He will wait until you tire out and start to go down. We cannot kill or pull down Jesus who is our lifeguard, but we could say our screaming and thrashing is our works. They really cannot do anything to save us, they will just tire us out, and we will drown and die. If we call out for the lifeguard “Jesus” to save us, he will, but not while we try to do it ourselves. You can give other ideas and do a bible study and teach the Mormon about grace plus works. This was just one example I like to use.

Something the Mormon might say is that you are only pointing out the apparent bad things in our church and you never point out the good things. If this happens then politely point out that you agree with the Mormon Church on the issues like, marriage is good, homosexuality is a sin, theft is a sin, murder is a sin, ect. Point out a few things you know you agree on and say something like, “See, we agree on some things.” But then point out these good things cannot save you. What happens if you believe many good things yet are wrong on who Jesus is? You may also go from here to wherever you left off.

A question I am asked a lot is, do the Mormons use a normal bible like believers or do they have there own bible like the JW’S? The answer is yes and no. Yes, because they use the K.J.V and it is the same as we use. The only difference would be is that they have Mormon footnotes that we don’t believe in. The no part is that they do have what is called the Joseph Smith’s “New Translation” of the Bible. Here is another good chance to open a talk. This subject is one I use with people like the “Mormon Answer Man.“ D and C 74:3-4 says, “3.Now, verily I say unto you my servants, Joseph Smith Jun, and Sidney Rigdon, saith the Lord, it is expedient to translate again; 4.And, inasmuch as it is practicable, to preach in the regions round about until conference; and after that it is expedient to continue the work of Translation until it be finished.”

Notice that the Lord told them to do this work and to finish the work. Now add 1 Nephi 3:7 to this. “And it came to pass that I Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.“ When I talk to Mormons I will say, “You know how people have a favorite Bible verse? Well, I have a favorite verse in the B.O.M. and this is it.” You can use this verse when talking about how the Mormons need to be perfect and keep the whole law. Point out how this verse says that God will make it possible for them to be perfect and ask why they can’t seem to follow this logic.

Anyway, back to the J.S.T of the Bible. You might be able to back order a copy of the 1993-1994 Church Almanac from the local Mormon bookstore. On page 339, under 1833, July 2, it says, “The prophet Joseph Smith finished the Translation of the Bible.” In the 2003 Almanac on page 536, under 1883, July 2, it says, “The prophet Joseph Smith finished the Translation of the New Testament.” I believe that whatever year we happen to be in, you could buy an updated Almanac and find the year 1883, look under July 2, and it will say this. If it only says he finished the New Testament, try and get the 93-94 edition that says he finished the whole Bible. The reason why is that in the J.S.T. of the Bible, it says on page 10: “COMPLETION” POSSIBLY NOT FINAL. Then, on page 11 it says Mormon authors Sperry and Van Wagoner have pointed out that the Psalms are evidence of the incompleteness of the translation.

On page 258 of the book, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 1989 version, he says and I quote, “My feelings at the present time are that, inasmuch as the Lord Almighty has preserved me until today, He will continue to preserve me, by the united faith and prayers of the saints, until I have fully accomplished my mission in this life.” It appears that Joseph Smith was wrong, and he did not fully accomplish his mission. Part of his mission given by God in D and C was to finish the J.S.T. and it said right in there he did not finish the work. Point out that either Joseph Smith was a false prophet or God is a liar/failure for not keeping Joseph Smith alive to finish his job given by God Himself.

In the J.S.T. of the Bible, the first 24 pages talk about all this plus lots of other fun stuff to point out. I suggest buying a copy to use with the Mormon. Point out that in the D and C and the Church Almanac, Joseph Smith was told by God to finish it; in the B.O.M. says that God will grant you the ability to finish what he told you to do. But in the J.S.T., it teaches that it is not finished. So what is the deal – is it, or is it not? Also, they sell the J.S.T. in the local Mormon bookstore and the Mormon will admit that parts of the J.S.T. are found in the footnotes of the B.O.M. and D and C. Plus, a good portion of the P of GR P is the same as the J.S.T., yet they don’t carry it, pass it out, or use it.

The Mormon will say that the Reorganized Latter Day Saints own the rights to the J.S.T. and therefore, it is not trustworthy. I point out that it is kind of funny how they don’t trust the Bible because the Church fell into total apostasy, yet the Lord tells Joseph Smith to fix the Bible and then the Lord allows it to be re-corrupted by falling to the Reorganized Church? That makes zero sense. Also, why does the local Mormon bookstore sell it if you don’t use it? Something you can point out to the Mormon is that they don’t use the J.S.T because they feel it has been corrupted by the RLDS, yet it can be found within the footnotes of their books. Please tell me who decides which verses were good to use and which verses were corrupted? Therefore, you cannot use the rest.

Most of the time, it will get the Mormon thinking without a response, but you also will get a stupid response here and there. There are 13 Articles of Faith, and number 8 says, “We believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the Word of God.” Personally, I like to use the J.S.T. on the Mormon. What I tend to do is prepare ahead verses I know I will use with the Mormon and check them in the J.S.T. If they are not found in the J.S.T. that means Joseph Smith did not mess with them. Then, I bring up a verse to the Mormon in the K.J.V. I remind him that if he uses the J.S.T. in his footnotes and God told Joseph Smith to finish the book and your church claims he did finish it, then, due to the fact that Joseph Smith did not change it, there is an implication that God was fine with the way it was. Therefore, we now can go on to what the verse means. For example, the Mormons believe in grace plus works. In Romans 3:28 it says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” (K.J.V.) Now in Romans 3:28 of the J.S.T. it says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith alone without the deeds of the law.”

Here is a mistake that no one caught, but can work to your benefit. I call it a mistake because the Mormon believes in grace plus works, but also down in verse 16 in the J.S.T it teaches grace plus works. The J.S.T. contradicts itself in this area, so point out how the Mormon Church teaches works, yet according to God, works is wrong. Another one would be in Isaiah where there are lots of verses that teach God knows of no other Gods besides Him. In the J.S.T., these verses were never messed with, so you can point out that they were never touched, therefore they must mean what they say.

The Mormon Church teaches what is called the pre-existence. They believe we were spirits born in heaven and then when we were born into earth here, we were born forgetting the pre-existence. It is more in-depth than this, but this is just a simple form of it. The thing I like to point out to the Mormon is in Job where God says to Job, “Where were you when I created the heavens and earth and did all that was done?” Tell the Mormon Titus and Hebrews point out that God cannot lie. If we were really with God before being sent to earth, why did God not just say to Job, “Don’t you remember when I did all this since you were with me?”

For God to say, “Where were you?” implies we were not there, otherwise God lied which it is impossible for Him to do. The Mormon will usually say that the Bible says, “I knew you before you were formed.” You can respond however you want, but I respond by saying that it is like a carpenter who puts plans on paper to build a house. He knows what the house looks like, even though plans are on paper and it is not built.

Another question I like to ask the Mormon is: “If the gospel means good news and you say you believe the good news, then what exactly is the good news of your belief?” They have always told me that it is the fact that the Mormon Church has “Living Prophets” and new “ongoing” revelations. It could change depending on the Mormon, but that is generally what I am told. I will then point out that if they have no hope of salvation and they have hundreds of laws to keep how is this good. To help you out with this logic, you can go to this website: (www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/followingthebrethren.htm. If an error occurs here, go to www.utlm.org. This is the Tanners web site. You should be able to find the Fourteen Fundamentals in following the Prophet. They were given at Brigham Young University and by the former Mormon Prophet/President Ezra Taft Benson. I don’t think any Mormon would argue with you if you show them these. All 14 give scripture – both ours (“The Bible”) and theirs – to back these statements up.

I won’t list all 14, but I will list the ones I like the best and use most often with the list of questions I ask. These are directly quoted:

FIRST: The Prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.

SECOND: The living Prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.

THIRD: The living Prophet is more important to us than a dead Prophet.

FOURTH: The Prophet will never lead the Church astray.

SIXTH: The Prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the lord”, to give us scripture.

ELEVENTH: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the Prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

FOURTEENTH: The Prophet and the presidency–the living Prophet and the first presidency–follow them and be blessed–reject them and suffer.

You can use these anyway you want or how you feel the Lord is leading you. Here are some ways I use these sayings from the prophet. Remember, I pointed out how the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the B.O.M. is the keystone to their religion in H.C. 4:46. In the book Teachings, on page 71 Joseph Smith said, “Take away the book of Mormon and the revelations and where is our religion.” Then, according to number 2, you could just throw away the B.O.M. and listen to the Prophet. Then if the Mormon says, “Well that is nonsense add number 3 and say Joseph Smith might have been a Prophet but he is now dead and the living Prophet supersedes the dead one. Then add number 4 to it also and say remember the Prophet will not lead the Church astray.

Now another one I like to ask Mormons and even people like the “Mormon answer man” is found in the J.S.T. on page 10 under the heading “Completion” possibly not final. It goes on to say “The angel who visited Joseph Smith on the night of September 21, 1823, quoted the Prophet Malachi as follows”

“For behold the day cometh that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly shall burn as stubble, for they that cometh shall burn them saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch…

Behold, I will reveal unto you the priesthood by the hand of Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord…

And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers; if it were not so the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.”

It goes on to say “This differs at important points from the King James Version of Malachi, but the Inspired Version is identical with the King James Version.” The above verse is from chapter 4 in Malachi. Now some of the problems we have is this. In both versions it says “Thus saith the Lord” implying God said so, so did God forget what he said, otherwise the angel misquoted what the Lord spoke but then that also is problem. The next option is Joseph wrote it down wrong but then that would mean 2 things, 1. He was not a true Prophet of God and 2, he failed in his mission according to both D and C 1:14 and D and C 74 and according to former president Ezra Taft Benson who gave the 14 fundamentals of following the brethren. I have shown this to many Mormons as of yet nobody can seem to give me an answer, they all just say I don’t know what to tell you. The other thing about all this also is Joseph Smith did not included the book of Malachi in the J.S.T. which would imply to me, that nothing was wrong with that book, Therefore how could it be misquoted? I say nothing was wrong with it because the reason it was “Fixed” the bible that is, by Joseph Smith was God told him the Bible had errors in it (A of F number 8). And only this misquoted verse appears in the book so it really makes no sense?

Now lets look at a couple of the really stupid stories in the B.O.M. I would not say to a Mormon these stories are really stupid, I would say how could the B.O.M. be truly inspired with stories like these in it. I might only point out these stories as the Mormon is getting ready to leave, just say here is one last thing to think about when you read your B.O.M. and come across these stories.

This is one story I just recently came across as I read through the B.O.M. Read Alma chapter 55 and I will just point out a few things in this story. First in the Word of Wisdom found in D and C chapter 89 it teaches a Mormon is not allowed to drink alcohol. Now you might think this is not a major doctrine so why bother, here is why. I have pointed out to the Mormon Jesus drank wine and turned water to wine before, and they just responded that it was non-alcoholic wine, in other words just grape juice. So I would point out how Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and you cannot get drunk off of non-alcoholic wine.

Now here is where it relates to the story in Alma 55. In Hebrews 13:8 it says 8:Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. In Moroni 10:19 it also teaches that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. But in Alma 55 we find that they were drinking wine to the point they got drunk, And this wine came from the Mormon prophet Moroni. Why can he drink wine but nobody else, This just tells me (my) God is a changing God.

Now more on this story is this. The Lamanites and Nephites were fighting each other and so the Nephites did not want to shed blood so they sent a few of there people over to the Lamanites camp pretending to be Lamanites and brought there wine and got them all drunk and when everybody was good and drunk they took them with out force.

Now to go along with a God who never changes lets add this. Black people today at one time were considered cursed by God and could never hold the priesthood. But later there was a revelation given by God that stated the blacks could hold the priesthood. This revelation was given in Salt Lake City in 1978,now this poses a problem? The problem is the black people are still black, and this implies they still have the mark of the curse. Yet we read in 3 Nephi 2:15 (And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites). Why would God lift the cursed skin from these people back then but not today? Since 1978 till today is about 25 years. The Scriptures teach nothing is impossible for God, but appears it is, and as I pointed out the God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That would appear to be false also. Now for another good story. Read Ether 2:16-25

This story really makes God look stupid. In short the brother of Jared was told by God himself to build a barge, and it was built so airtight that the brother of Jared went back to God and said we have no light in side to see by and no air to breath. So then God tells him to drill a hole in the top and the bottom of the barge, then to put plugs in the hole to keep water from coming in. And God even states if you pull a plug and water comes in put the plug back in and pull the other plug instead, this implies water will come in.

I talked to a Mormon about this story once and pointed out how, if water comes in then it will displace air, therefore you will have less air to breath and eventually you will keep filling up with water to the point where it will sink or you will drown. Plus all the things in the ship will get destroyed by water. I pointed out how if you pull what you think is the plug up top implying you are upright and you pull it and water comes in then it means one of two things, you are either under water and therefore you would sink or you were turned upside down. And if you keep getting thrown about to the point where you cannot tell which way is up then you can or will be seriously hurt.

The response I received from the Mormon is (Rick) you just don’t understand fully what you just read. I really believe this is a good story to show how the B.O.M. cannot be inspired by God it really makes him look stupid. Ok now lets move on to things found in the B.O.M.

We will look at a few things you can point out and say did this really happen or how can this book be truly inspired with things like this in it. Just in about half of the book of Mormon I put together a list of around 110 things either really stupid or that are Christian theology taken from the bible that Mormon’s deny like the trinity, or saved by grace alone. I will not list everything so it would be best if you go through and read it and put together your own list. A lot of what is listed is only parts of a verse to say on space and time, please read for context before pointing this stuff out to the Mormon. Nothing is twisted or taken out of context, I just do not want to make an entire book here so it is easier to just list the part I want to focus on.

1 Nephi 1:2: The Jews use the language of the Egyptians.

1 Nephi 1:8: And being thus overcome with the Spirit, he was carried away in a vision, even that he saw the heavens open, and he THOUGHT HE SAW GOD sitting upon his throne.

How can you say I thought I saw god? You either did or did not.

1 Nephi 16:18: And it came to pass that as I Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine steel.

How can you break a bow made of fine steel? You could take cheap steel and beat it over a rock or on something very hard and try as you might you will have a really hard time trying to break it. Also if you have a bow you will do all you can not to use it in such a way as to possibly break it in such a careless manor.

Enos 20: They ate raw meat.

Every body knows Gold, Diamonds and Pearls are rare therefore most precious but have you ever heard of ZIFF as a precious metal.

Mosiah 11:8: Ziff (a precious thing) king Noah used. To this day it has never been heard of or found. It must be really precious and rare to still be undiscovered.

Alma 10:4-9: First the guy (Amulek) in this story says in verses 5:Never the less after all this I never have known much of the ways of the Lord, and his mysteries and marvelous power. I say I never had known much of these things; but behold; I mistake, for I have seen much of his mysteries and his marvelous power.

So which is it? Then it goes on to say that Amulek admits he openly rebelled against God and is living in rebellion to Him. Then God sends and Angel to him telling him I will use you this day to feed a Prophet of God. That would be like God speaking to Charles Mansion and saying I will use you this day to feed Billy Graham.

Now in Alma 10:17: This same Amulek who just admitted he was rebelling against God, so we know it is not an Angel in the form of a man or God himself in the form of a man goes on in verse 17 to say he (Amulek) perceived their thoughts. How can a mortal man know your thoughts or read your mind so to speak. Only God can do this. It is not stated that God gave him the power to do so. In case a Mormon says this is the reason it happened.

Alma 13:18: Claims Melchizedek had a Father, this denies the Bible.

Alma 19:29: Jesus is mentioned but the date is B.C. 90. The reason why this is mentioned is because Jesus took the queen by the hand and lifted her up. But there are many verses that talk about the “Coming” in the future time of Jesus. So is he coming or is he here already?

Alma 21:6: We do believe God will save ALL men. Well they believe wrong because we know not all men will be saved. The B.O.M. even teaches some will go to hell?

Alma 24:19: And thus we see that they buried their weapons of peace, or they buried the weapons of war, for peace. Which is it?

Now lets move on to the Doctrine in the B.O.M.

Most of this will be self explanatory otherwise if needed it will be explained why it is here.

First the phrase “And it came to pass” is used something like 1,600 times in the B.O.M. I am not sure of the exact number. But this phrase alone would remove around 20 pages of the B.O.M alone.

1 Nephi 2:19: And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto me, saying; blessed art thou, Nephi, because of thy faith, for thou hast sought me diligently, with lowliness of heart. This is listed because he searched for God and it would stand to reason he search the scriptures. And many Mormons only pray about this not search them.

1 Nephi 3:7: The Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them. In other words the Mormon is taught to live according to the law, but they fail at this. According to this verse they should not fail and should be able to fulfill the entire law if this is what God real requires of them as they are taught.

1 Nephi 11:21: Behold the Lamb of God yea, even the son of the Eternal Father. If you need to pull out the dictionary to define Everlasting or Endless with the Mormon I suggest you do it. According to this verse and others in the B.O.M. they state God is Eternal or Endless yet on pg 345 of Teachings it says God was one a man that exalted to Godhood.

To prove this point out D and C 132:4 to the Mormons and they will think you are going to argue the issue of plural wives. Verse 4:For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant. Ask what exactly everlasting means. This is how you can get them to define everlasting in their words. Then go back to the dictionary and the issue of god.

1 Nephi 11:32: Everlasting God

1 Nephi 13:6: I beheld this great and Abominable Church; and I saw the devil was the foundation of it. Here is an example of how if the Mormon says you’re picking on my Church, let them know this is how they view our church. Anyone that is not part of there Church belongs to the Devil.

1 Nephi 13:40: That the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father, and the Savior of the world; and that all men must come unto him, or they cannot be Saved. First it says the lamb who is Jesus is the Son of God, This is important because there are verses that say the Devil is an Angel. If Jesus was an Angel then how can he know be a son.

I know they will say we will all be sons some day. Point out in Hebrews 1:5 For which of the Angels did he ever say: You are my son today I have begotten you. Hebrews 5:5 repeats this. Then add to this Titus 1:2 God cannot lie. Hebrews 6:18, It is impossible for God to lie. Now the Mormon might say well we don’t trust the Bible because it is corrupted, so point out Enos 6: And I Enos, knew that God could not lie.

So go back to Hebrews 1:5 and 5:5. Point out this is God saying this and he cannot lie. If they stay and continue to talk you’re doing good.

2 Nephi 2:7-9: These verses say Jesus offers himself as a sacrifice for Sin, to answer the ends of the law. And that no flesh can dwell in the presence of God save it be through the merits and mercy, and grace of the holy messiah who layth down his life. They that believe in him should be saved. No mention anywhere of any works. Again God cannot lie.

Mormons believe God is Omniscience meaning knows all things, as do I. My point in this is, if I can see no mention of works in these verses and it leads me to believe no works are needed to be saved, and therefore if they really are needed then I would think God is smart enough to figure this out. And not leave me with many unanswered questions that would cause me to not be saved.

2 Nephi 2:17-18: Teaches the Devil was an Angel of God and fell from heaven then deceived Adam and Eve to cause them to get kicked out of the garden. Yet Mormons believe it was God’s design for this to happen. I don’t believe it was Gods design for Lucifer to fall, he had free will and chose to fall. I don’t believe he was created to become evil.

2 Nephi 9:8-9: Says God the Father is Eternal and that we can end up like Lucifer being shut out in misery forever. No mention of a second chance or baptism after death.

2 Nephi 24:12-15: These verses are very much like Isaiah talking about the fall of Lucifer from Heaven. This verse says Lucifer was thrown out of Heaven for trying to be like the most High God. What is good about this verse is it goes against what Mormons believe about Jesus and Lucifer going to God with there own plans for the redemption of earth.

It also says, God is the most High God. How can this be so if God had a Father who before him was a God. If it is the Mormons goal to attain Godhood why was it wrong for Lucifer to try doing the same thing?

2 Nephi 26:12: Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God. Notice it says THE Eternal God. Was Jesus an Angel that became a God or is he GOD?

2 Nephi 27:12: This verse is speaking about the B.O.M. it does not mention the book by name but it mentions being viewed by 3 witnesses and how they shall testify of it’s Truth. So if this book is true why do Mormons not truly believe these things. Mormon Doctrine that is used today truly goes against the teachings of the B.O.M.

To go along with the last verse here is,

2 Nephi 31:21: And now, Behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven where by man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the Doctrine of Christ, and the only and True Doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God with out end. Amen. The Trinity and Salvation with out works is also mentioned.

Jacob 1:19: Says if we do not teach the word of God with all diligence, then the blood of the people will be upon our heads. Point out as the Mormon is getting ready to leave, because they feel you are just picking on them that they are following this verse by leaving. Point out that they are not enduring like the Mormons of old. Then add for fun this next verse as they are leaving.

Alma 26:29-30 29: And we have entered into their houses and taught them, and we have taught them in their streets; yea, and we have taught them upon their hills; and we have also entered into their temples and their synagogues and taught them; and we have been cast out, and mocked, and spit upon, and smote upon our cheeks; and we have been stoned, and taken and bound with strong cords, and cast into prison; and through the power and wisdom of God we have been delivered again. 30: And we have suffered all manner of afflictions, and all this, that perhaps we might be the means of saving some soul; and we supposed that our joy would be full if perhaps we could be the means of saving some.

Now remember we are not letting the Mormon in to teach us. But the Mormon thinks he/she is doing that. Yet when we point out error they tend to run. Just say how can I truly believe if I notice a perceived problem, yet just overlook it and believe it in blind faith. In light of Scriptures teaching to search the Scriptures, and when Scriptures teach you have the “Truth” yet you wont share it. Point out they most likely had questions themselves and someone took the time to talk and not run. See where I’m going here?

Jacob 3:11: That ye may not become Angels to the Devil, to be cast into that lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death. Mormons deny the hell, Christians believe in.

Jacob 6:10: And according to the power of justice, for justice cannot be denied, ye must go away into that lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever, which lake of fire and brimstone is endless torment.

Jacob 7:23

Alma 14:1 17:2 33:2: All say search the Scriptures, which the Mormons don’t seem to do.

Mosiah 1:6: O my sons, I would that ye should remember that these sayings are true, and also that these records are true. This is referring to all the records that end up forming the B.O.M.

If these things are true then ask why Mormonism denies these teachings.

Mosiah 3:5: The lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all Eternity to Eternity. So was God, God in the beginning or was he a man that became a God?

Mosiah 3:11-13: Says Jesus Blood Atones, for sin of fallen man. And Salvation only comes through faith and repentance in Christ alone. No mention of works. It also says, Christ sent his Holy Prophets to declare this to us.

Mosiah 3:17-19: Salvation only in the name of Christ, no works mentioned.

Mosiah 7:26-28: Christ is the Father God. Not a God.

Mosiah 12:31-34: Now it teaches you must follow the law to be saved. So which is it, grace alone, or by works.

Mosiah 15:1-5: This teaches the Trinity, and that God the Father is Eternal.

Mosiah 28:3: The Gospel should be declared unto every creature, because their is endless torment that awaits them other wise.

Mosiah 28:7: Eternal life by believing. No mention of good works or having to enter the temple to be saved.

Alma 3:26-27: People judged according to their works. Resulting in Eternal joy or misery. No mention of second chance or baptism for the dead.

Mosiah 15:26-27: If you die in your Sins you will perish for the Lord cannot redeem you after death. So much for second chance theology or baptism for the dead.

Mosiah 25:13-18: People are baptizing with no mention of having any priesthood authority to do so.

Mosiah 26:22-27: People that are redeemed by Christ can sit on his right hand in heaven. No mention of 3 degrees of glory. Also if you are not redeemed you will burn in everlasting fire.

Mosiah 26:30-35: As often as you repent you will be Forgiven. This denies Mormon Doctrine and the Miracle of Forgiveness. Did Spencer Kimbal not read this part?

Alma 7:10: The Virgin Mary was over shadowed. This denies what Mormons teach and the verse I already quoted.

Alma 10:2: Handwriting on the wall. This is similar to the account in Daniel.

Alma 10:28: Some one is called a child of the Devil. Mormons teach we are all brothers. Even brothers of Lucifer. Many Mormons have told me Lucifer is there brother. But the context in this saying does not imply we are all brothers as Mormons teach.

Alma 11:21-41: A debate between to people asking if there is only one true God or not. Turns out there is only one true God.

Alma 11:44: The Trinity, Which Mormonism denies.

Alma 12:14-17: Judgment according to our works, ending in a second death.

Alma 13:7-9: Jesus no beginning of days.

Alma 13:20: The Scriptures are before you. (B.O.M.) If you deny them it is to your own destruction.

Alma 19:36: The Spirit was poured out upon all people. This is important because Mormonism teaches the Spirit can only be in one place at one time. So how can he be poured out upon many people at one time. Page 359, in M.D under Holy Ghost says (He can only be in one place at one time). Then on page 753, of M.D under Spirit of the Lord it says (The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, he constitutes the third person in the Trinity, the Godhead). It is interesting they mention the Trinity in this manor when they deny the Trinity.

Also on page 753, it goes on to say (The Spirit which is the Holy Ghost is a revelator). So point out the Holy Spirit is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Ghost or Spirit according to Apostle Bruce m, can only be in one place at one time. Did he not read Alma 19:36?

Alma 21:9: Redemption through Christ alone. No works or temple service mentioned.

Alma 24:9-11: There is forgiveness for the person(s) who commit murder. This denies the teachings of Spencer Kimbal in the book Miracle. Again did he not read this part?

According to Mormonism the atonement took place in the garden of Gethsemane not on the Cross. It happened when Jesus sweated great drops of blood. Yet in this next verse it says,

Alma 24:13: Through the Blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be SHED for the atonement of our sins. Notice it did not say sweated, and you cannot shed blood by sweating.

Alma 26:14: The most High God. Again if there is a God(s) above God the Father how can he be the most High?

Mormons pray for a burning in the bosom to know if the B.O.M. is true. Yet in this next verse it denies that.

Alma 30:43-46 Korihor asks Alma for a sign to prove God is real. Alma rebukes him saying the Scriptures are laid out, You also have the testimony of the Holy Prophets and the creation as a sign. And he rebukes him harshly, Show this to Mormons when they mention the burning in the bosom.

Alma 30:60: Says the Devil drags people to Hell. I thought there was no Hell?

Well this is only really just a few verses out of the hundreds. This is only half the book at best. So now let’s take a look at the Book Doctrines of Salvation. This book was put out in 1956, it is now out of print. I believe you could find it in a used bookstore, or get a copy off of ebay. Most Mormons I met have this or read it so they already should be familiar with it.

This is the thing I want to point out. Joseph Smith said. “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book”. History of the Church vol 4, pg 461 and Mormon Doctrine pg 99 under Book of Mormon.

He also said “Take away the book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none” Teachings pg 71, and pg 99 of M.D also. But now in Doctrines of Salvation vol 3, pg 198 Joseph F Smith 10th president and Prophet of the Church said, “In my judgment there is no book on earth yet come to man as important as the book known as the Doctrine and Covenants, with all due respect to the Book of Mormon, and the Bible, and the Pearl of Great Price, which we say our standards in Doctrine. The book of Doctrine and Covenants to us stands in a peculiar position above them all.”

I am going to tell you why. When I say that do not for a moment think I do not value the Book of Mormon, the Bible, and the Pearl of Great Price, just as much as any man that lives; I think I do. I do not know of anybody who has read them more and I appreciate them; they are wonderful; they contain Doctrine and Revelation and Commandments that we should heed; but the Bible is a History containing the Doctrine and Commandments given to the people anciently. That applies also to the Book of Mormon. It is the Doctrine and the History and the Commandments of the people who dwelt upon this continent anciently.

But this Doctrine and Covenants contains the word of God to those who dwell here now. It is our book. It belongs to the Latter-Day Saints. More precious than gold, the Prophet says we should treasure it more than the riches of the whole earth.

Notice he said about the B.O.M. It is Doctrine and History of people that dwelt here. Yet Joseph Smith said the B.O.M contains the fullness of the Everlasting Gospel. It would appear as if another Prophet of the Church disagrees with him. But lets go one step further with this thought. Lets add what Ezra Taft Benson said, who also happens to be a Prophet and President of the Church as these two were also.

Under the 14 fundamentals of following the brethren, it says under number 2 “The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works”. Of these 3 prophets who is right? They all disagree on what is the most important. Remember number 4 says the “Prophet will never lead the Church astray.” They’re not necessarily leading the Church astray, but there is confusion as to who is right.

If the D and C is more important then the B.O.M. why is it not passed out by the Mormon Missionary’s. Yet if the Prophet is more important, why pass out any book? It leaves to many questions. If it is true that the B.O.M. is nothing more then a recorded of ancient people, then how can I get nearer to God by reading it as Joseph Smith states?

Now let me touch on the Journal of Discourses. I personally like to talk about the Adam God Doctrine. But whatever topic you choose from the Journals, I find most Mormons will say we don’t use or trust them because they were written in short hand and cannot be accurate. They might also say they did not have the same technology back then as we do today that is why they do not trust it..

I will point out a few things. 1. In the newspaper almost daily I see a section set-aside for corrections. If we can make many mistakes today with our “Technogaly” then we should except they also were not perfect.

2. When I discuss Adam God, Mormons, say that was just his mere opinion. Point out that the “Prophet will not lead the Church” astray number 4. The Prophet does not have to say “Thus saith the lord” to give us Scripture. number 6. If he does not need to say “Thus saith the Lord”, then how can we decide if he is giving us Scripture or his mere opion.

To show it was not mere opion read to then the Adam God teaching, and show them the part that says this. “My next sermon will be to both Saint and Sinner.” “One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day.” This does not sound like mere opion. He goes on to later say, “Every man upon the earth, professing Christian or non professing, must here it, and will know it sooner or later.”

Now for the best part. “Now let all who may hear these Doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their Salvation or Damnation.” Notice he said they are Doctrines. Then in volume 13 B Young says on pg 95, “I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.” On page 264 of volume 13 Orson Hyde another Apostle of the Church said, “When B Young sends forth his Discourses they are as good as Scripture found in the Bible.”

If this still does not get the Mormon thinking, you can point out in both the Mormon Encyclopedia and M.D. That they both say that the, (King Follet Discourses) given by J Smith in volume 6, is his greatest sermon ever given. A lot of today’s doctrine comes from that sermon, so why can they pick and chose from the Journals yet I cannot.

You can also point out that in 1925 the Mormon church put out a book called (Discourses of B Young). They republished it in the mid 50’s. The entire book is sayings of B Young taken from the Journal of Discourses. The Church feels most of what he said was good. It is funny though that between the 1925 edition and the 50’s edition there have been around 200 pages removed.

One other thing you can show the Mormon is page 216 in volume 14 of the J.O.D. president George A Smith said “If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if it’s preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”

Well it is my goal to better equip the saints to witness to Mormons. This is just a small amount of information in reality to what is really out there. I am trying to give some ideas on how to possibly approach Mormonism, with the books most people have or can get. I also just showed a few things with the “Rare” or hard to get books for people who either have them or will get them.

It is my desire to see Mormons come to Christ, If anyone would like to write me with questions or looking for ideas please feel free to write me at my email account. It is (rickshelli@hotmail.com) please put in the subject line Mormonism so I know it is not junk mail or a virus. Please feel free to hand out this information to who ever you feel will benefit from it. This is to be given freely to help equip the saints. I pray this will be a blessing to all who need the help and read it. RICK BEAUDIN.

 

Printed up, this will be around 26 pages.

Are Mormons Christians?

Latter Day Saints, also known as LDS, desperately want to be known as Bible-believing Christians. LDS will tell you that they believe the same gospel as Christians do, and they get highly offended if you tell them they have a different gospel and are not Bible-believing Christians. Sadly, more and more Bible-believing Christians are believing the LDS are in fact Bible-believing Christians just like us. It’s getting to the point that Christians are joining hands with LDS and allowing them to work with them in sharing the gospel of Jesus with non-believers.

Well, here are plenty of quotes from LDS leaders and prophets sharing exactly what they think of the Bible and Christians. Read them and then tell me, do you honestly believe they are still Bible-believing Christians? And if you do, can you support it from the Bible? I will break these quotes down into different subjects to make this a little easier to understand.

What LDS prophets and presidents have said about Christians:
Read 1 Nephi 14:10 “behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of god belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.”

Brigham Young: “with a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called christian world” (Journal of discourses 8:199).

3rd president John Taylor (Brigham young quotes Mr Taylor) “Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell, the eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked onto the earth” (J.O.D 6:176).

Heber C. Kimball “Christians-those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about-some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth” (J.O.D 5:89).

Now, let’s think about what these quotes all just said. LDS want to be known as and called Bible-believing Christians, but a few original LDS prophets and presidents have all clearly stated what they think of Christians, so why would LDS want to be known as Christians? If these prophets were to come back from the grave and were alive today, then they would not even recognize the LDS church today.

The LDS prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, stated that LDS do not believe in the same Jesus as we Bible-believing Christians do.


In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President [Gordon B.] Hinckley spoke of those outside the [LDS] Church who say Latter-day Saints “do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He, together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.” (Church News, June 20, 1998, 7)

“It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” (LDS Seventy Bernard P. Brockbank, Ensign, May 1977, p.26 ).

If the prophet claims that he does not believe in the same Jesus as we Bible-believing Christians do, then how can LDS claim to believe that the LDS prophet? The LDS prophet is the only person who speaks for God in the LSD church, and he says we do not have the same gospel, so why do the LDS claim to believe in the same Jesus as we do?

A tract published by the LDS Church in 1973 says this:

Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however, is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one’s salvation. For instance, many believe or pretend to believe that if we confess Christ with our lips and avow that we accept Him as our personal Savior, we are thereby saved. They say that His blood, without any other act than mere belief, makes us clean. (What the Mormons Think of Christ, 22)


10th LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote that “man may commit certain grievous sins–according to his light and knowledge–that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved, he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone–so far as in his power lies–for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail…. Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that men may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent” (Doctrines of Salvation 1:134, 135).

LDS at one time taught the blood of Christ cannot cleanse us or save us. As a Bible-believing Christain, do you agree with that? If so, we need to talk. If not, then how can LDS claim to be Christians?

Sadly, many Christians no longer believe the Bible as the Word of God. If you claim to be a Christian and dont believe the Bible, then I question your salvation. But that aside, if you believe the Bible to be the Word of God, and you feel LDS are Christians, then read these quotes.


Article eight of the LDS Articles of Faith reads, “We believe the Bible as far as it is translated correctly …”

Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS Church, declared, “Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg. 327).

According to the Book of Mormon, only fools believe the Bible is a sufficient spiritual guide.

2 Nephi 29:6 states, “Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.”

Probably one of the most vocal LDS critics of the Bible was Apostle Orson Pratt. He claimed, “… who in his right mind could for one moment suppose the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse of the Bible has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?” (Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, pg. 47.)

The Book of Mormon states that “when it [i.e., the Bible] proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord” (1 Ne. 13:24), but “after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, . . . many plain and precious things [are] taken away from the book” (1 Ne. 13:28).

“The words contained in this Bible are merely a history of what is gone by; it was never given to guide the servant of God in the course he should pursue, any more than the words and commandments of God, given to a generation under one set of circumstances, would serve for another generation under another set of circumstances. There must be something to suggest or to draw forth the command to answer the circumstance under which we are placed at the time” (Apostle Orson Hyde, October 6, 1854, Journal of Discourses 2:75).

“…who in his right mind, could for one moment, believe the Bible in its present form to be a perfect guide? Who knows that even one verse has escaped pollution, so as to convey the same sense now that it did in the original?” (Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.47.)

“As all informed persons know, the various versions of the Bible do not accurately record or perfectly preserve the words, thoughts, and intents of the original inspired authors” (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.383).

Bible-believing Christians teach and believe that God the Father is eternal, not created, nor did He just come to be, yet LDS teach otherwise.

Milton Hunter from the council of the seventy, gospel through the ages pg 104: “Mormon prophets have CONTINUOSLY taught the sublime truth that God the eternal father was once a mortal man.”

President Joseph.feilding.Smith, in the improvement era, vol 18 pg 81;
The PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH, teachings, pg 345-346;
Apostle James Talmage, Articles of Faith, pg 430;
Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer
Presdint lorenzo snow, gospel through the ages, pg 104
Apostle Orson Hyde, Quorum of the twelve; all taught and believed God was once a man.

Galatians 1:8-9 says, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

According to the Bible, if anyone teaches another gospel, they will be eternally damned. Mormons teach another gospel. People who claim to be Christians, but believe Mormons are also Christians, have and are teaching another gospel.

Cowardly Atheists.

I will be doing my live radio show on Sat the 16th and 23rd of August 2014 and will be talking about Atheism. I will mention this issue on my show, but want to write about it also since I’m getting tired of Atheists who lie, are hypocrites and cowards, then claim us Christians have no clue.

I heard on the news about a group of atheists who were crying about a restaurant who gives people 15 percent off their bill for praying before eating. I came across this blog in my search. http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/restaurant-give-discounts-to-customers-praying-in-public/

Now it appears that this blog author is a pretty staunch Atheist and this is what his blog says about the author.
Jerry A. Coyne, Ph.D is a Professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolution at the University of Chicago and a member of both the Committee on Genetics and the Committee on Evolutionary Biology. Coyne received a B.S. in Biology from the College of William and Mary. He then earned a Ph.D. in evolutionary biology at Harvard University in 1998, working in the laboratory of Richard Lewontin. After a postdoctoral fellowship in Timothy Prout’s laboratory at The University of California at Davis, he took his first academic position as assistant professor in the Department of Zoology at The University of Maryland. In 1996 he joined the faculty of The University of Chicago.

Now compare what he claims to know and how supposedly smart he is with his degrees and position. Compare that to me, a guy who only has a GED and was kicked out of 2 schools and dropped out of a 3rd. Now I wrote this Guy a private email and here is the exact exchanges.

My first reply to Jerry:
Hello Jerry,
My name is Rick Beaudin. I came across your website when I did Google search about praying in restaurants. I have a website and live internet radio show that airs every Saturday from 3-4pm central time. My website and radio show is called Fighting for Truth. My web address is
www.fightingfortruth.com

I’m writing to ask you if you would be interested in coming on my show and being interviewed by me. Thanks, Rick Beaudin.

His reply to me:
Your website has been blocked, and I’d have to be able to see it to give a response.

Now before I add more, let me say this, You really need to see my website to decide if you want to talk to me? That tells me you will only talk with people who agree with you.

My second response to Jerry?

I just clicked on the link I sent you and it said it was blocked. But then I typed the whole address into the web bar and it came up. Maybe you could try that. Rick

Jerry’s reply to me:
No thank you. I’ve done interviews on Christian stations before, and I invariably get sandbagged. No doubt you want to criticize my views on evolution or atheism, rather than honestly ask me question. So I respectfully decline. Please do not contact me again.

Now before I add more, let me say this? I never said what we would talk about, so instead of asking in advance what I would ask Jerry, or asking to keep it to a certain topic Jerry just dismisses me and judges me in advance and assumes what I will do. Now if Christians do that to Atheists, they cry, but they can do this to us. This just clearly show that at least Jerry has a bias and really did not want to talk, so he makes excuses to not talk with me. Whats he scared of?

So this was my reply to Jerry:
I will read your reply on my next show and point out you judge me with out knowing what I would ask and point out with all your degrees you cant handle debating me.

Jerry says this to me:
I just don’t want to waste my time with you as your podcast appears to be marginal and not important. Also, I should point out that publicizing private emails is really not something you should do, but if you want to go ahead and be a jerk, go ahead and do so. Violating privacy like that is a truly Christian thing to do–Lol as you say.

Why don’t you read that, too. Anyway, I asked you not to bother me again, and you did.

Now let me say this,
Jerry wrote me back so fast he did not have time to listen to my pod-casts and make an honest and informed judgement in order to say this, your podcast appears to be marginal and not important. This tells me that despite all his degree’s and “Training” He is bias and does not care about truth. Then He must not be as smart as he claims since he said this, “Also, I should point out that publicizing private emails is really not something you should do”

In what I posted, where did I say, I would post his private email? I never said that, so it tells me Jerry is not really reading what I wrote and really does not care what I said. So how is this being open minded, Honestly caring about facts and truth and being an honest atheist? It’s not.

So this was my Final reply to Jerry:
I wont publish your email or anything, I will simply tell people an atheist is unable and willing to honestly debate a christian. My next two shows over the next two weeks are about atheists, Tune in and listen, you might learn something.

So I’m pointing this out because I’m tired of Atheists speaking out about Christians Like were clueless Idiots, while they themselves are running scared. Now if someone thinks I made all of this up, then feel free to follow the link to this guys website, do some searching, and then contact Jerry and tell him what I posted and ask if this really is true or not. If he claims no, I’m lying, then he can sue me for slander, but since I have all of our email exchanges saved, and can prove this all went down, he cannot deny it and therefore, I have a pretty serious Atheist running scared. LOL.